Why is Yoshi P turning his back on the playerbase that loves this game the most?

[Reynhart]

If that community with thoese subs stopped some of you wouldnt have your Fashion Fantasy 14 aka FFXIV A WoW Clone Reborn.

Wow wow, hold on. New players have no "debt" to us. SE does, and they already repaid us by creating the Legacy account. Our voices and opinion are no more important than any other player's. We can share them, express our feelings or fears about the game, but that's all.

And if the game remain strong with that formula over the years, it just means we were wrong to want those changes.

[Alacran]

ps: Three times so far have I seen that people are still using the don't generalize card eventhough I've stated in my starting message of this thread that I'm not do people even read things anymore in these forums or just want to add a message for the sake of it?

Your generalization happened when you used "Why is Yoshi-P turning his back on the playerbase that loves this game the most?" I made sure i read this attempt at a "civil conversation/ healthy discussion" beginning with an accusation very carefully...

I'll say this as a 1.0 player with 5 active subs (two for me, two for a family member, and one for my son, thee of which are legacy)...No game is perfect, for me FFXIV is fairly damn close. It's something i enjoy a great deal as do my guild members of over 10 years (transferred from FFXI). We as community are more invested with the necessary aspects of life, and when that becomes to much, finding my friends here in this game, clearing content, enjoying the story of an amazingly made FF title helps me unwind and enjoy the series i have come to love over the last twenty years.

I do not feel betrayed. I feel you are trying to represent me. You do not.

The man simply told a truth that some people in the community do not want to understand. This FFXIV , what is being asked for is not part of the current plan for it's future development. At some point, maybe one day soon people will understand that Yoshi-P, while being producer and director is not the boss, he still has someone to answer to, quotas/ deadlines to meet, a plan to follow.

[Fawkes]

I got a goobbue, a legacy discount, and hermes shoes. Yoshi P doesn't owe me anything.

I thought it was a pretty drastic change from 1.23 to 2.0 combat, it was a surprise and I felt a little let down at the time. But I got used to this game. And at this point I probably wouldn't want that game back. Although my dream content is forever going to be like a dynamis-esque revisitation of those humongous old zones, preferably with maximum Dalamud hanging in the sky and eerie music.

[Reynhart]

The man simply told a truth that some people in the community do not want to understand.

It's not a truth ("I can't do that"), but a choice ("I don't want to do").
We just feel that the direction is a problem, and I doubt anyone can really tell how many people are really upset by that.

As long as we pay our subscription, it doesn't matter if we like the game as it is or not.

it's very relevant when a big majority of beginner players are still here. Take a look at the data sometime
It's pretty nice to be lifted from the veil of ignorance form time to time

Still no actual numbers ?

[Vaeria]

I actually agree heavily with the OP's expressed feelings about FF14's catering to casuals in general (this goes TRIPLE for the PvP community) That being said, OP..you gotta remember..Chrono, Frog, Robo, Sabin, Edgar, and Cyan, to name a few...have been dead for a very very very long time. The quality of any rpg, mmo or otherwise, by todays standards, is based first and formorst on the amount of money it can generate. Quality and love of the artform no longer have the luxury of being 1st place.

Use logic. Out of 6 million accounts..lets sayyyyy...2 million are from the school of XI, with 'its' definition of the word 'relic'. while the other 4 million are said casuals. Yoshi releases content where you literally have to sell your soul, social life, and one of your kids to complete. Forget just Savage...you have to go into the depths of hell and get a drop from Satan to complete it. And the finished product? A weapon equivilant to the end of the next 10 patches. Now..you have the 2 million who will make this objective their waking hours til night's sleep-goal. But for that other 4 million? "Eh..its too much work..and because I dont feel like it..Im gonna feel kinda inferior to others and don't wanna stand out..I better just throw in the towel and go play something else." And so...a gorge is opened, a great divide....and the world of FF14 loses its most precious asset...money. Money, yes largely just from the fact that the name itself is Final Fantasy.

Even so..while financial gain is unquestionably the driving force behind FFXIV...I think Yoshi is underestimating the drive of the typical mmoer to succeed. Titan HM was the 1st and last trial by fire that we were forced into...and even though the bitching about it was heavy, like eating veggies as a kid..the experience made those who weathered it better (and you NEVER appreciated a relic as much as that 1st one..am i right?)

Back in ff11..I started out as a polearm user noobie. The very 1st day, I saw a lvl 75 drg walk by and said...thats me. Hell may freeze over..butr dammit..thats me. And I set off. And oooh how I would suffer to get there. But I did...and have no regrets. I strongly believe its STILL that way..for a LOT of players. But taking the safe road as the smart business man is want to do, Yoshi just doesn't seem to be willing to play upon that instinct..or invest in it should I say. He seems to think no ones willing to give blood to get to where they're going, and the content (just like the mobs on VERY short chains that no longer aggro you and chase you through the whole zone so that youre in fear of your life) continues to remain 'safe."

[Mindylou]

Upon seeing the thread title I was curious as to what I may find inside, but then I saw that it's just another Skizzle Fizzle thread. I don't need to read a single word of the OP to know it's pretty much going to be a long-winded rant of "Woe is me, why wont SE cater to an extremely niche audience?! I don't think FFXIV needs to be more like XI but here's why I think it needs to be more like XI!" or some other nonsense along those lines.

lol best post yet!!

[Reynhart]

Use logic. Out of 6 million accounts..lets sayyyyy...2 million are from the school of XI, with 'its' definition of the word 'relic'.

Considering FFXI has around 500k active accounts on its prime, way before XIV was even released, I'd say your estimation is incredibly generous

Yoshi releases content where you literally have to sell your soul, social life, and one of your kids to complete. Forget just Savage...you have to go into the depths of hell and get a drop from Satan to complete it. And the finished product? A weapon equivilant to the end of the next 10 patches. Now..you have the 2 million who will make this objective their waking hours til night's sleep-goal. But for that other 4 million?

What about the Relic/Anima weapon ? You have several stages to grind in order to have one the best weapon of the expansion. But, would it be very different if all those stages were released at the same time, and earlier stages were nerfed during the expansion lifetime like they are now ? Since none of them actually required dedicated content after Chimera and Hydra, there's nothing preventing it.

But taking the safe road as the smart business man is want to do, Yoshi just doesn't seem to be willing to play upon that instinct..or invest in it should I say.

I don't think Yoshida is taking the "safe" route, he's taking the "short" one.
Let me explain...and recall some painful memories of my time in XI...

Once upon a time, I was a new player. Like all new players, I reached level 10 and made my way up to the dreaded Valkurm Dunes. It took at least 20 minutes to reach the place, probably dying once or twice in the process (Thus losing XP), 20 more (When lucky) to join a full party, for a one-hour grind (before anyone ragequit and the party dissolving completely), with several more deaths...

In the end, I needed 2 hours, to, maybe, lose progress because the XP loss might be higher than the Xp gained. That's the harsh route.
Now, you add Aetheryte teleport, you remove the need to grind in a full party, you remove the death penalty, and suddenly, I could have gained the same Xp in a mere 30 minute session. That's the 'safe route'.

The same is true for dungeons. Wanna do Salvage, Nyzul or Dynamis ? Great ! You have 2 hours in front of you ? No ?! Don't bother...

As long as players can progress by small session, they'll have no issue if it takes time, even when being casuals. After all, in the end, everyone will be at the level cap. And since every instance has an adjusted level, you'll have absolutely no issue finding someone to do content with you (Ok, maybe not for Meridianum and Praetorium...)

[Velhart]

snip

SE is not going to cater to a small group and they certainly owe nothing to the FFXI/1.0 communities. 1.0 got their perks and FFXI is still available to play. Don't crutch a game simply to cater to a small crowd. If you are intent on bringing ideas from the previous games in here, then try to make it work in FFXIV's core structure that works on a mass scale, not simply what you and your friends want. Yoshi-P recently explained himself why bringing the older style is a risky concept at best.

Again i'll go on like a broken record: SE needs to turn to Blizzard for inspiration, not MMO's of the past. Sure there are "some" things in the past that can possibly work, but I always like the "take what works and make it better" approach.

SE does need more variety of challenge, but not the ways the past games did it. Simply bumping up the challenge in the current structure is more than a step in the right direction. Making an actual raid structure is one. Not making relics brain dead easy is another one. The structure of the game is fine, improve the quality control on that. Have SE make proper learning curves that encourage you to get better and challenge yourself. Convince the team that catering to casual market is fine, but what they actually cater to is bad players. Casual players will get good if they build the game right. Can't say all will, but these uneven forms of content is why "git gud" is a harder concept to grasp than other MMO's.

[tymora]

Why are we now 3 years later still catering to a group of people that are mostly come and go players?

It gives the company a lot of $ catering to this crowd.
Besides, many of us FFXI fans have mostly grown up, got a job, possibly married and have kids. We can no longer do the same kind of hardcore content from back then, even if we want to.

That said, some truly large scale event for FCs will be nice. As it is, not much reason to even have a good sized FC.

[Reynhart]

If you are intent on bringing ideas from the previous games in here, then try to make it work in FFXIV's core structure that works on a mass scale, not simply what you and your friends want.

I think Abyssea could work very well in XIV concept. A vast zone, popped targets that drop some gear tokens and an item to go up in the NM pyramid, until you reach the top for great rewards.
And it would change from the endless daily roulette tomestone grind...

After all, Abyssea is widely acknowledged as "the day FFXI became casual"