Yoshi-P on Character Growth

[Alahra]

And what utility would that be? Maybe I missed something here. Oh wait... APOC, now I get it.

This was a hypothetical example. It wasn't based on the classes as they exist now—but if there were to exist player options of these sorts, one avenue is for one build to have slightly lower personal DPS but have other advantages, and utility is one way to differentiate.

A dps number of that small a difference would mean that B's build would be better than A's if it has more support in it, which would make it more optimal than A.

It would depend on the type of utility, sure. If the DPS value were that close, it would be more likely that B's utility would be something more support oriented and not DPS-related (i.e., things like Goad or Dragon Kick).

Folks are getting very hung up on numbers when these are all hypothetical examples intended to be illustrative of the kind of choice peoples would like to see.

Again, consider DRG and MNK. They're close in DPS but one has more utility than the other. Is the choice between them an illusion?

[Reynhart]

Again, consider DRG and MNK. They're close in DPS but one has more utility than the other. Is the choice between them an illusion?

No, of course not !
MNK is the better choice...oh, wait, if you have a BRD and MCH, DRG piercing debuff can be useful, so DRG is a better choice, and you want a BRD for Requiem if you have BLM...but if you don't have a DRK and face a magical foe, then Dragon Kick is invaluable...so MNK is the best choice...or is that NIN ? No, NIN is only really good if you already have a WAR for Eye...but you might end up with a PLD...

[Alahra]

No, of course not !
MNK is the better choice...oh, wait, if you have a BRD and MCH, DRG piercing debuff can be useful, so DRG is a better choice, and you want a BRD for Requiem if you have BLM...but if you don't have a DRK and face a magical foe, then Dragon Kick is invaluable...so MNK is the best choice...or is that NIN ? No, NIN is only really good if you already have a WAR for Eye...but you might end up with a PLD...

That's essentially the kind of thing I'm getting at, yes. Character choices (of which jobs are the main example FFXIV has right now) should have implications for group building and playstyle. The game can support that kind of thing because it already does. That is not to say that it is easy to balance (WoW is a great case study in how difficult it can be), which is part of why I would like to see only relatively simple choices to start that would be easier to balance in practice, with perhaps the room for expansion later.

[Reynhart]

The game can support that kind of thing because it already does.

The game can support different setup because it already does.
The game can support someone not being optimally geared for content, because it already does.
The game can support someone not being optimally skilled for content, because it already does.
The game can support the small minority of people who want real challenge, and on-the-edge gear, setup, and skills, because it already does.
And all those things works fine together...

[Alahra]

The game can support different setup because it already does.
The game can support someone not being optimally geared for content, because it already does.
The game can support someone not being optimally skilled for content, because it already does.
The game can support the small minority of people who want real challenge, and on-the-edge gear, setup, and skills, because it already does.
And all those things works fine together...

I'm not really sure what you're getting at—but there's a common argument against providing character choices in FFXIV that basically says it wouldn't work in the game. That's what I was referring to.

[Reynhart]

I'm not really sure what you're getting at—but there's a common argument against providing character choices in FFXIV that basically says it wouldn't work in the game. That's what I was referring to.

Yes, and I pointed out that that argument is just hollow. Any discrimination people are fearing can already be in the game. Yet, it mostly doesn't prevent people from doing what content they want.
(Except Gordias, but Yoshi-P himself acknoledged that Gordias was really flawed)