Yoshi-P on Character Growth

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Fixed that for you.

That doesn't really answer my question, though. Say two BLM's have two similar builds, but BLM A has a max damage of 3k while the other can hit for 15k damage. Why is it acceptable to have a subpar skill?

[MomomiMomi]

That doesn't really answer my question, though. Say two BLM's have two similar builds, but BLM A has a max damage of 3k while the other can hit for 15k damage. Why is it acceptable to have a subpar skill?

I'm not going to answer a question that is answered in the post right above yours. Also, why are the numbers so different? Nobody has suggested such a thing.

If BLM A is doing 3k damage and BLM B is doing 15k damage because of a choice they made in gear of equivalent level or skill choices (aka build), then the developers have done something wrong.


Here, you might also find this useful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[loreleidiangelo]

I don't think Blade and Soul's skill tree allocation is all that great of an example on how people just tunnel the absolute "best" or whatever. On my Summoner, I had a PVP build, an AOE build, a PVE group content build and a "trying to duo stuff with my boyfriend that we probably shouldn't be duoing" build. In addition, you could do earth-based Sunflower build or wind-based Bees build once elemental accessories and legendary weapons came out (though nobody did the white legendary except hardcore PVPers lol an admitted failure in equal opportunity design).

Same thing with WoW. Right now on my Frost Death Knight, I have two possible builds I'm testing that are parsing almost exactly the same. One involves rotating two moves and an auto-attack talent to keep a constant 30% haste buff up, and the other involves stockpiling resource (kinda like XI's TP-building) to channel a ridiculously strong move for as long as I can. Both builds are actually parsing about the same, with the haste one being better on a dummy but difficult to upkeep in heavy movement fights, whereas the channel move suffers less from movement but isn't as high theoretical DPS given perfect conditions. Of note, the channel build is also a lot more straightforward and easy to use.

It's also worth remarking that both of those builds actually prioritize different secondary stats, so there's customization to be had there, too. "Illusion of choice" arguments really should just be renamed "illusion of an actual argument" arguments, jeez.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

I'm not going to answer a question that is answered in the post right above yours. Also, why are the numbers so different? Nobody has suggested such a thing.

If BLM A is doing 3k damage and BLM B is doing 15k damage because of a choice they made in gear of equivalent level or skill choices (aka build), then the developers have done something wrong.

Let's say BLM A has a trait that reduces the cast time for spells 40%, but also reduces their power by 60%, with an occasional fire 4 proc and fire 3 procs without penalty or cast time, while BLM B has the reverse, a trait that doubles cast time and roots the caster, but triples the power, with an additional proc that guarantees a crit.

[LunaFaye]

That doesn't really answer my question, though. Say two BLM's have two similar builds, but BLM A has a max damage of 3k while the other can hit for 15k damage. Why is it acceptable to have a subpar skill?

Because the game is designed and supported by the care bears. If you look at a class/job and test this class under these circumstances and conditions you will find an average number, 3k based on your example.Even so the class/job can do magnificently more dmg, 15k (again based on your example) doesn't mean you HAVE too. And that's the problem that appears, most players look at an example of average play style and think that's all they gotta do. None of them understands that if you wanna play in a good static and beat endgame content, that you need to advanced further than just the average expectations. However since after 3 years of crying people finally got yoshi-p so far, that he acknowledges a average player can't and won't be able to experience endgame content, it is time to change the whole model. As the latest patches have shown as well as the future, it is now understood that mediocre performance is something we can look forward too. That's the reason it is acceptable and you won't be able to change anyone's mindset, it's up to you from now on, to adjust to the mediocre play style and not the bad players adjusting to your above average performances.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Well, I was trying to point out how subpar builds are, but phone limitations prevented me from painting the full scenario. Still, your response Lunafaye pretty much sums up why I don't want builds around.

[loreleidiangelo]

Let's say BLM A has a trait that reduces the cast time for spells 40%, but also reduces their power by 60%, with an occasional fire 4 proc and fire 3 procs without penalty or cast time, while BLM B has the reverse, a trait that doubles cast time and roots the caster, but triples the power, with an additional proc that guarantees a crit.

This is kind of a loaded question. What is BLM A's spell speed, crit, det? BLM B's? What is the % of these proc rates that you are being fairly vague in mentioning? What impact does crit as a stat weight have not just on rate, but power? How significantly would spell speed affect the GCD?

Obviously, these questions might be a good answer as to WHY the devs don't fool with talent choices, but the fact remains that there are variables not being taken into consideration with your hypothetical here.

[MomomiMomi]

Here, let me give you a better example of what people are actually looking for.

BLM A pushes 5000 DPS

BLM B pushes 4950 DPS

Why is it acceptable for BLM B to pick a subpar skill?


Answer: Because they can both clear the content just fine.

[LunaFaye]

Here, let me give you a better example of what people are actually looking for.

BLM A pushes 5000 DPS

BLM B pushes 4950 DPS

Why is it acceptable for BLM B to pick a subpar skill?


Answer: Because they can both clear the content just fine.

That's correct, but only after the game got adjusted. With all the nerfs and welfare gear that's being thrown at them, they are now able to clear the content just fine. If these changes would have not been made, we would be back right here in the forums, people screaming and crying about changes because they can't play as they want or beat content. Good try tho...

[Alahra]

Here, let me give you a better example of what people are actually looking for.

BLM A pushes 5000 DPS

BLM B pushes 4950 DPS

Why is it acceptable for BLM B to pick a subpar skill?


Answer: Because they can both clear the content just fine.

And to elaborate, in good choice systems, BLM B's rotation might be more forgiving, or they might provide additional utility to the party in some way. This is analogous to the differences between DRG and MNK, the former of which does less personal DPS but has greater raid utility.