Roles for Samurai, Red Mage, Dancer

[Shippuu]

No one wants to deal with that crap.

I mean, despite that being demonstrably untrue as a significant portion of the game's population plays tanks and enjoys them...

YOU may not want to deal with "that crap" or are unable to but thankfully you are not everyone in this community so you should probably stop speaking for everyone.

[Derio]

3 melee dps and 4 ranged. Redmage could make it 4 and 4, or samurai could make it 4 and 4. But there are more ranged dps than melee because melee dps have partial tank mentality whether they know it or not. DRK added alot of new tank players to the game. Even though the census says 19%, there are many players that play tank for dungeons for fast dungeon queues, but main dps for everything else, thus they skew the census by a tad bit

[Welsper59]

btw a AOE heal should involves splits and twisting in the air

[Welsper59]

I mean, despite that being demonstrably untrue as a significant portion of the game's population plays tanks and enjoys them...

YOU may not want to deal with "that crap" or are unable to but thankfully you are not everyone in this community so you should probably stop speaking for everyone.

Wait so you're trying to argue that tanks and healers are more popular in active numbers than DPS? That was the point of the previous statement and you're now stating that it's untrue. Whether or not there's an active following for a role is irrelevant when the point was referring to majority situations. The moment you have a universally greater need for DPS over tanks or heals is the moment the game has done something special that no others have for it.

[Powe]

OMG yes yes SE make this happen

[Jandor]

Dancer should be a gathering class that gathers applause and fans.

[Shippuu]

Wait so you're trying to argue that tanks and healers are more popular in active numbers than DPS? That was the point of the previous statement and you're now stating that it's untrue. Whether or not there's an active following for a role is irrelevant when the point was referring to majority situations. The moment you have a universally greater need for DPS over tanks or heals is the moment the game has done something special that no others have for it.

I was never arguing that they are more popular so perhaps I mispoke but I was specifically talking about populations numbers. There are less tanks than dps as a whole, but when we're talking about jobs that are strictly melee its manipulating the statistics to compare all dps players to tank players when talking about adding specific jobs. People who are die hard caster/ranged dps players may have little interest in melee dps jobs.

In this situation, samurai. The argument is that "there are more dps players so it should be dps." But if we actually look at population data, the number of players who play specifically melee dps jobs is roughly the same as the number of players who play tanks (20% and 19% respectively). So to argue that based on population alone it should be a melee dps simply cannot be made. That was the point I was trying to make.

[silentwindfr]

the trouble with samurai as tank, and it was pointed countless time but ignored by some, is... it will be:
- a two hand sword class (like the dark knight)
- based on parry (like dark knight and warrior)
- mostly physical damage (like paladin and warrior)
- wearing heavy armor (like every tank)

the point is the samurai as tank is only a skin.... we already have a jobs with 2 hand sword as tank... and one based on parry. what the point to add one more jobs like this? i see more a magic melee tank that will bring novelty and new gameplay to the tank, more than samurai that some want simply because.... they want samurai as tank.

as tank it will bring nothing new to the jobs. when a tank based on a caster can be quite interesting and have a few way to be added. because dark knight is not really a caster tank, is more a bad hybrid with more a melee with a few ability draining him mp... don't make it a caster tank.

and just a particularity into the combo system is not enough for justify to add samurai as tank.

[Fevelle]

A quick description of what I's like and why:

Samurai TANK: stacks system that goes up the more hits you take, so you can unleash powerful blows like Bonecrusher. A DPS stance based on drawing your sword where you lose your ability to auto-attack but counters every hit you take with a 100 potency Iai attack.

Red Mage HEALER: only role in this game where you can use both attack and healing magics without people getting mad at you. Mechanics based on doublecasting (instant-cast 2 spells, no MP cost), one melee combo for MP management.

Dancer DPS: Think Monk without the stacks and each "Form" would give the nearby party members a different effect, so, depending on how you want to support them, you rotation would differ.

[Arrik]

What I would be ok with: SAM tank, RDM anything that isn't a healer, DNC as anything
What I would love to see but isn't happening: SAM tank, RDM full hybrid, DNC full hybrid

the trouble with samurai as tank, and it was pointed countless time but ignored by some, is... it will be:
- a two hand sword class (like the dark knight)
- based on parry (like dark knight and warrior)
- mostly physical damage (like paladin and warrior)
- wearing heavy armor (like every tank)

the point is the samurai as tank is only a skin.... we already have a jobs with 2 hand sword as tank... and one based on parry. what the point to add one more jobs like this? i see more a magic melee tank that will bring novelty and new gameplay to the tank, more than samurai that some want simply because.... they want samurai as tank.

as tank it will bring nothing new to the jobs. when a tank based on a caster can be quite interesting and have a few way to be added. because dark knight is not really a caster tank, is more a bad hybrid with more a melee with a few ability draining him mp... don't make it a caster tank.

and just a particularity into the combo system is not enough for justify to add samurai as tank.

INCOMING FFXI TALK. This is your only trigger warning!

- Doesn't have to be, although not using their iconic weapon is probably a big turn off. Samurai Weaponry
EDIT: Maybe a fellow D&D/LoT5R nerd can help me, wasn't there a stance/feat/something that allowed one clan to offhand the wakizashi in a defensive stance? Maybe something like that could work.
- Doesn't have to be. FFXI has Seigan/Third Eye to make it a psuedo evasion tank, with some parry on the side. They could pretty easily break the mold here and still keep balance.
- Doesn't have to be. FFT Samurai shows that making magic damage a part of the skill set could work. It does have the potential to step on NIN's toes if the gimmick isn't tweaked more to work with whatever physical damage is in their skill set, but that's more on SE.
- Doesn't have to be.FFXI's Rune Fencer is a light armor tank. That isn't to say it doesn't have issues, but those issues are more ingrained into the game itself rather than the classes design (it's hard to make a tank that can compete with Ochain/Aegis). There are also armors that could fit in-between the heavy and light categories like some of the earlier "tank" armor that has DRG on it as well as the tanks. Build that Medium armor set into full sets will also have the framework set for other lighter armor tanks.

I think the part I bolded in your post is the biggest issue. It's on SE to step out of the safe space they have been playing in with the patch cycles and job design, and actually want to make an attempt at something new and keeping the balance instead of the trend toward homogenization. That's the bigger issue.