In 4.0 can we please get rid of caster bars on physical ranged jobs?!

[Jetstream_Fox]

Again, I shall reiterate, Bard isn't the only job fundamentally changed with the level cap increase. Read: Enochian on BLM and Aetherial Attunement on SMN.



Although, if giving WM a shorter cooldown to allow Bards the ability to stance dance ala and healer with Cleric's would save old school bards some heartache, then why don't we all push for it in 4.0?

Let me explain it too you in a simpler way, the BLM and SMN skills past 50 work with the basics of the class, yes they might be sloppy, but they don't change the fundamentals of those classes. If Enochian and Aetherial Attunement were even on the same level as WM, you'd see BLM and SMN skills be drastically changed, like all the skills going from being casted to just AoEs or even turned into a physical melee class. Now imagine a new player playing BRD till 50 and then getting slapped with WM? Having to adjust to new playstyle virtually immediately, it causes a disparity in the gameplay. As I've stated and people before me, WM did more then just change the class, it redesigned it overnight and caused issues within the classes toolkit pre HW, you know, the foundation of the class that players must understand first before anything else.

[Ametrine]

I play SCH just fine with a controller?
I have 3 and a half crossbars, and it did take some getting used to, but it works... so I wouldn't call it "impossible".

The controller issue was only part of the reason... To be honest, I really don't care for Scholar's level 60 skills, and how you have to pre-set up the heals by hitting a second skill verses adlo's simple sheild system. On top of the heavier fairy use, it no longer jived with me. I had always been a bit too reliant on Lustrate being there to save the day, and the sudden drain on my aetherflow stacks from other skills on top of having a far harder time with my fairy, I just jumped ship before I made more teams weep with their gutted healer.

Scholar's new skills made sense with the lore and aesthetic, but it just no longer worked for me despite loving both those aspects of the job.

[Astyrah]

That's why it bothers me. I've HAD to swap mains with 3.0, too, and I know I'm not the only one who did so. Scholar is borderline impossible on a controller set-up at level 60. I couldn't micro the fairy since I ran out of slots to put her skills on!

So, I tried SMN, DRG, PLD, and eventually landed on AST for a long time. I found another option that was different but still fun.

i don't main scholar and i play on keyboard+mouse, but i have it at 60, and the only time i have used emergency tactics and dissipation was on nidhogg extreme, during the last phase - akh morn stacking to be specific - when the WHM died due getting hit with one of the bombs prior.

otherwise those skills are not hotkey'd and are just click skills for me, deployment tactics - i only use this pre-pull and phase changes (esp pre-adds phase) so it's off the hotkeys too.

the only thing i have on tap is indom and broil which should be too hard to find a spot in your controller mapping (for two skills) since the fairies themselves never got anything new from 50-60.

so yeah half of the SCH toolkit for HW is very very situational and i suggest you give it another go because you loved the job and for what it is.

same as us here that complain. we love bard and there's no replacement for it for some (maybe til they give us ranger someday). so no matter how much SE decides to screw us over, we stick to the job for what it is.

[Jandor]

I really liked MCH up until level 52. Then it became a slog that took over 6 months to finish.

I'd be fine with BRD and MCH losing the stand still stances.

[Jetstream_Fox]

I agree

You're right, a good player would be able to adjust and maintain, but sadly it's more the opposite because like you said, the complexity of the class because of WM. Sadly, SE didn't realize it already had the skills they could have put on BRD which would have made the toolkit much better, look at Jehantels skills Voice of Valor, Voice of Fortitude, and Relentless March, 3 great support songs that would have kept BRD how it was and expanded on the support aspect of the job.

[blackkanye]

I'm honestly still shocked they went with standing totally still. I'm surprised it wasn't made as long as mage cast time, but you had walking speed movement. Like that just fits with the motif they setup for ranged physical before it felt.

[Shurrikhan]

People will complain about it until the day it gets removed..

They took a class that specialized in mobility, and forced it to stand still. If people wanted to stand still, they have BLM, and SMN. You cant take a class that people have picked, and have played for fifty levels, and change up the formula on them so drastically. It's not even the fact that people dont want to adapt, its that people picked a class and put large amounts of time into it, and suddenly its something entirely different that they didn't choose, and may not even like.

They forced it to stutter step, much more easily than any true caster, and prep or compromise (again, at less cost than for a true caster) for mobile dps. It's about as rooted as a melee maintaining uptime on a mid-sized mob with some tank-waggle.

The only real sad thing is that Bards fell well behind MCH in terms of preparation for movement possible, by the simple fact that stance-dancing is more costly due to Bloodletter's massive potency and chance frequency and that you have only one instant proc weaponskill instead of two. They gave us a challenge, but then gave us only one real option by which to reliably deal with it — Feint.

As for the issue of how sudden the change was, or even that it's usually a dps loss until 56, I'll agree completely. But I don't think SE should therefore just scrap the mechanic completely. Instead, they should introduce it bit by bit, starting early, until both ends of stance-dancing seems satisfying and rewarding to master — which requires that there are those several little steps or tricks to get used to or keep in mind within a given fight that skill gap will show within, not highly as to make playing in either stance more than one optimally should a noticeable difference in casual content, but enough nonetheless to make a Bard feel like they need to know what they're doing to master it. WM at least has increased that skill gap, and the number of concerns and decisions involved in BRD play. I'd be more likely to quit the class for having lost those than its "mobility" before.

I'm honestly still shocked they went with standing totally still. I'm surprised it wasn't made as long as mage cast time, but you had walking speed movement. Like that just fits with the motif they setup for ranged physical before it felt.

If you could move the whole time at 2/3s speed, or 2/3s of the time (starting movement at about 2/3s cast bar, just short of cast cancel) at 100% speed, the only difference is the latter can be more easily cut in case of emergency, and allows you to more... explosively play chicken with AoEs. There's no difference in actual mobility between your 'archer's walk' and WM. WM's just safer, mechanically.

[Alistaire]

Not canceling, but shooting earlier. Make the shoot weaker and increase the chance to miss

This would be a good compromise tbh.

[Mugiawara]

What gets me is, I honestly don't see the problem with WM. And to be 100% honest, pre60 I ran around like a moron as a BRD.
Gaining WM just keeps me still but if I time it right, I can move while casting it. I mean, at least you aren't losing DPS and that much time
unlike the BLM's. We still have to AoE dance to hell, lose Enochian, possibly lose Sharpcast, Lose Leylines and any other buffs.
I just don't see any valid complaints about it. You still are mobile, just not 100% like you use to be more like 95%.
Yoshi listened to those who wanted a more of a DPS bard, and here you go, you just gotta stand still for a sec.
I mean the ones of use who wanted a more supportive bard got screwed.

I just want bard to have ya know... MORE SUPPORT ABILITIES?

I agree with this guy.

[Tint]

Thing is, we already have/had two caster classes with cast bars. Now we have 4. Removing variety is not a good thing here...

you forgot to mention the healer classes, who are casters as well. 7 out of 13 jobs have cast bars. the other 6 are melees.

yes, more variety would be nice.