Suggesion to revamp Gathering (Please leave your Feedback)

[SeleneVenizelos]

But isn't half the fun of levelling a job learning it and using your experience to become more efficient at it? Add in minimap markers for conventional gathering nodes and you're basically taking away any point for people to memorise where nodes are; and I don't mean long term, by the way, I just mean remembering where the nodes that form your triangle are. To find them, the abilities are more than sufficient, I think.

[Ravidrath]

I fully support these ideas, Jinko.

I'd also like to see more variety in the leves. Harvesting/Quarrying/Piking leves would be a start, but there have to be more interesting ways to vary these up and make them seem more exciting.

For example, spawn some NPCs - say, three fighters and a crafter. Beastmen are attacking with acid-coated weapons, and the crafter needs materials to replace their weapons. The more stuff you bring them, the more beastmen they kill, and the better your reward will be. We're supposed to be supplying a growing war effort, so let's make us actually feel that way!

And hile it's nice and predictable, I think randomizing sweet spots at every node would be more interesting. Part of the game would be to find the sweet spots, and then giving better or more frequent rewards for hitting them.

But isn't half the fun of levelling a job learning it and using your experience to become more efficient at it? Add in minimap markers for conventional gathering nodes and you're basically taking away any point for people to memorise where nodes are; and I don't mean long term, by the way, I just mean remembering where the nodes that form your triangle are. To find them, the abilities are more than sufficient, I think.

Memorizing spawn locations is not fun for most anyone. While you may enjoy it, it hardly constitutes gameplay and these classes should be made more fun so more people want to partake of them. Maintaining the status quo shouldn't really be an option just because you've found your niche.

Furthermore, making the classes more accessible and helping other people get into the job doesn't preclude your ability to remember the locations and be more efficient than they are. You are still free to memorize away.

I do think some kind of exp. chain system to incentivize becoming more efficient would be good, though. It'd add some much-needed drive to these classes.

[SeleneVenizelos]

Memorizing spawn locations is not fun for most anyone. While you may enjoy it, it hardly constitutes gameplay and these classes should be made more fun so more people want to partake of them. Maintaining the status quo shouldn't really be an option just because you've found your niche.

Memorising the locations of nodes, what drops from there, which part of the aim to hit; these all come from practising and repeated gathering in specific areas. The more you do something, the better you become at it. Gathering really should not be any different in my opinion. Minimap markers will just make it too easy to find the nodes and it will not promote any form of skill or initiative, which game content needs in order to not become the means to the end and, essentially, a boring grind.

I'm not necessarily against making it a little easier, but adding minimap markers would be too much. The beginner levequests for gathering are ample enough to teach new gatherers how to find nodes, do we really need to grab them by the hand and lead them there? I'd prefer to see and play a system that encourages skill and experience more than being able to follow a minimap marker. There is no skill in that whatsoever.

[Ravidrath]

Memorising the locations of nodes, what drops from there, which part of the aim to hit; these all come from practising and repeated gathering in specific areas. The more you do something, the better you become at it. Gathering really should not be any different in my opinion. Minimap markers will just make it too easy to find the nodes and it will not promote any form of skill or initiative, which game content needs in order to not become the means to the end and, essentially, a boring grind.

I'm not necessarily against making it a little easier, but adding minimap markers would be too much. The beginner levequests for gathering are ample enough to teach new gatherers how to find nodes, do we really need to grab them by the hand and lead them there? I'd prefer to see and play a system that encourages skill and experience more than being able to follow a minimap marker. There is no skill in that whatsoever.

Again, just because you like it doesn't mean it's currently fun. Everything you said would be fine if people liked it the way it is now, but they don't.

As I said, they need to tackle it from both sides: making it more fun and accessible for everyone and then raising the skill ceiling on the play for the pros with some kind of chaining system or other device that rewards efficiency. People that are better should be rewarded for it, but not at the exclusion of everyone elses' enjoyment.

[SeleneVenizelos]

Again, just because you like it doesn't mean it's currently fun. Everything you said would be fine if people liked it the way it is now, but they don't.

As I said, they need to tackle it from both sides: making it more fun and accessible for everyone and then raising the skill ceiling on the play for the pros with some kind of chaining system or other device that rewards efficiency.

A vocal minority posting on these forums does not represent the playerbase, don't assume to speak for it. Whilst I'm not saying either is right or wrong, this thread is an opinion thread where direct feedback was requested; my opinion is no less correct or incorrect than yours, please don't dismiss it using what the playerbase that you don't represent wants as the reasoning.

There is already a reward for efficiency: increased gathering speed and yield. Those who take the time to learn the class thoroughly and practise various methods and styles will always perform more efficiently than those who don't. This applies to every class in the game, why should gathering be any different?

Skill and practise should always be rewarded, regardless of what style of job or class you're playing.

People that are better should be rewarded for it, but not at the exclusion of everyone elses' enjoyment.

If you don't enjoy gathering stop doing it, nobody is holding a gun to your head. Leave it to those who do enjoy it and maybe find another hobby in the game to pass the time?

[Ravidrath]

A vocal minority posting on these forums does not represent the playerbase, don't assume to speak for it. Whilst I'm not saying either is right or wrong, this thread is an opinion thread where direct feedback was requested; my opinion is no less correct or incorrect than yours, please don't dismiss it using what the playerbase that you don't represent wants as the reasoning.

There is already a reward for efficiency: increased gathering speed and yield. Those who take the time to learn the class thoroughly and practise various methods and styles will always perform more efficiently than those who don't. This applies to every class in the game, why should gathering be any different?

Skill and practise should always be rewarded, regardless of what style of job or class you're playing.

If you don't enjoy gathering stop doing it, nobody is holding a gun to your head. Leave it to those who do enjoy it and maybe find another hobby in the game to pass the time?

I think you have more posts in here than anyone else, at this point, which would make you the most vocal of this "vocal minority." And as someone with BTN50, you are not only in the extreme minority but also represent an entrenched interest.

The point of this thread is that people who do not have their class maxed would like the classes to be more fun because they would like to enjoy maxing them, or for others to enjoy it more. I find gathering nice and relaxing from time to time, but that doesn't mean it can't be better, and none of Jinko's suggestions make the class worse. To me, everything he's said makes the classes more accessible and fun to me.

As I see it, your advocacy of keeping things the way they are is in keeping with FFXI/XIV's tradition of hiding information or making it difficult to use, which is not what this game needs right now. You are certainly free to express that opinion, but at this point it is not constructive to the rest of the discussion.

Additionally, as someone with BTN50, I'd expect and hope you'd have some ideas on how to improve these classes so that they might be more fun to you, too. Your voice could be the most valuable, but instead you seem to be trying to stifle discussion.

Surely you don't think the gathering classes are perfect the way they are? If not the things Jinko's suggesting, then what would you do to improve them and make them more fun for people that aren't you?

[SeleneVenizelos]

I think you have more posts in here than anyone else, at this point, which would make you the most vocal of this "vocal minority." And as someone with BTN50, you are not only in the extreme minority but also represent an entrenched interest.

The point of this thread is that people who do not have their class maxed would like the classes to be more fun because they would like to enjoy maxing them, or for others to enjoy it more. I find gathering nice and relaxing from time to time, but that doesn't mean it can't be better, and none of Jinko's suggestions make the class worse. To me, everything he's said makes the classes more accessible and fun to me.

As I see it, your advocacy of keeping things the way they are is in keeping with FFXI/XIV's tradition of hiding information or making it difficult to use, which is not what this game needs right now. You are certainly free to express that opinion, but at this point it is not constructive to the rest of the discussion.

Additionally, as someone with BTN50, I'd expect and hope you'd have some ideas on how to improve these classes so that they might be more fun to you, too. Your voice could be the most valuable, but instead you seem to be trying to stifle discussion.

Surely you don't think the gathering classes are perfect the way they are? If not the things Jinko's suggesting, then what would you do to improve them and make them more fun for people that aren't you?

That's a lot of animosity just because of a difference of opinion.

You are also making a lot of assumptions. At what point have I intentionally withheld information? Jinko asked for feedback on his idea and that's what I shared with him. It's you who is turning this into a personal battle with me. Take a step back, take a deep breathe, and relax. It's just a game!

[Jinko]

Minimap markers will just make it too easy to find the nodes and it will not promote any form of skill or initiative, which game content needs in order to not become the means to the end and, essentially, a boring grind.

Tell me what is the difference between pressing Arbor's Call and getting a message saying *item is here* and pressing Arbor's Call and getting a visual display on the mini map.

I'll tell you, nothing !

Its people like you that keep this game from evolving into something fun and enjoyable just because you are worried someone might step on your gathers toes and god forbid compete for some of your market share.

i dont know what rank you are now for you dol, but there are some tricks you can use to make it easier on you if you just lvling. for starts i have only been lvling in grid. the tunnel style map makes it so you can see all the points without even using and skills to locate them. I linked the website in my last post hat has all the locations mapped.

Im not asking for advice though. (but um thanks anyways)

Im making a suggesting to make the game more fun and enjoyable, lets not forget that PS3 users can't browse the net for maps on where gathering nodes are or some people who prefer to play in full screen can't either.

Of course you could argue use a seperate computer/laptop (which I do) but I don't think its acceptable to expect your players to use external infomation for something as simple as gathering.

[SeleneVenizelos]

Tell me what is the difference between pressing Arbor's Call and getting a message saying *item is here* and pressing Arbor's Call and getting a visual display on the mini map.

I'll tell you, nothing !

Its people like you that keep this game from evolving into something fun and enjoyable just because you are worried someone might step on your gathers toes and god forbid compete for some of your market share.

That's a little harsh and uncalled for. You want my feedback but only if I agree with you? You shouldn't ask for critique on your idea if you can't handle somebody disagreeing with you in a polite and articulate manner.

Overlooking the juvenile way you're treating people, let me answer that question. As it works now, Arbor Call directs you to the nearest gathering node and gives you a rough distance. As you gather with frequency, you learn how to start judging distance in the game and you start to memorise where these nodes may appear once one vanishes.

If you're given the exact location of the node, you'll not learn how to judge distances, you won't learn any pattern to the zone you're gathering and so you'll not be using any initiative or experience when gathering. You'll just be running between spots following the minimap icon and using as much skill as it takes to breathe or eat.

There's a big difference, but evidently you didn't actually start this thread to discuss your idea, you started it to belittle people who didn't agree with it.

Maybe you should take a break from the forums and learn how to gather. It's really not hard...

[Jinko]

If you're given the exact location of the node, you'll not learn how to judge distances, you won't learn any pattern to the zone you're gathering and so you'll not be using any initiative or experience when gathering. You'll just be running between spots following the minimap icon and using as much skill as it takes to breathe or eat.

Is it neccessary to do this ?

To be honest I am quite content to run from one node to the next without so much as having to worry about how i should judge where it is, if it was flashing with a neon blue sign it would not bother me, perhaps other than the break in immersion lol.

There's a big difference, but evidently you didn't actually start this thread to discuss your idea, you started it to belittle people who didn't agree with it.

Of course I didn't start it ti belittle anyone, its not like I set out to lure you into a trap, I'm not a fourtune teller,

I started it to get agreement and to put forward my idea, why would i start it to be told my idea is uneeded and pointless ?

I appoligise for snapping at you before though, you are right it was childish of me :P

Maybe you should take a break from the forums and learn how to gather. It's really not hard...

Nah there is only so much gathering I can stomache and I think I've had my fill for today.

And I wouldn't forgive myself for not saying this; it's actually people like you that are stopping this game from evolving into something good. You find something hard so you complain and whine about it until it's made easier.

Oh come on !! Gathering is hardly a mind boggling persuit is it.

Im not asking for it to be made easy, im asking for them to making the system more intuitive.

I didn't realise either that I had to add anything constructive to my post besides my opening idea, is that not being construtive enough ?

Why am i even argueing with you anyway ?? !! lol