Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

[Aikaal]

1: 1% reduction in your base GCD = 1% increase in DoT potency
2: The initial damage of spells are not affected, even thunderclouds

Also, haste abilities (ley lines, arrow, fey wind, etc) don't do anything for DoT tick potency.

Are you sure about that? Because I'm pretty sure I tested Aero and Shadowflare who are both 25 Potency DoT and Shadowflare seems to have a higher gain on Spell Speed for DoTs. To be exact, just the naked base DoT is stronger for Shadow Flare than Aero and this makes no absolute sense.

Not to mention that there are a few things that I have not seen tested.

1: SS Increases DOT "Potency" Direct Modifier to it.
2: The Next Thunder X will add it's full damage over time amount to it's initial damage - Is this value altered by the change to Thunder Dot Potency.

Example
T3 - with 1150 SS. Say this value changes the DoT Potency to 44.4 from 40/tick.

Would the T3 Proc be worth:
425.2 + 355.2 = 780 Potency

compared to at 354 SS:
390 + 320 = 710

Or

390 + 355.2 = 745.2
-------------------------------------------------------

All of which are fairly significant.

We really need more data for the gain on DoTs for spell speed lol.

But yes, and I will be adamant about it. A Thunder III Proc is a 710 Potency spell of a 2.5 Second cast. 745.5 With Enochian buff. Far more superior than any Fire III proc or that 529.2 Potency 3 Second cast Fire III. There's no way anyone should forsake Thunder and I don't think of any reason to used Sharpcast on Fire over Thunder or Thunder III. You can Sharpcast a proced Thunder III for an extra Thunder III. With 4 DoT clip, your Thunder III is 577.5 Potency. Still much higher than Fire 1 or even Fire IV. Even at 5 ticks clip Thunder III is better than Fire IV and this does not include the gain from Spell Speed on DoT damage.

If the DoT DPS gain is really 1% per 1% reduction then a full Thunder III proc would probably be around 800 Potency lol that's the damage of 2 Deathflare xD

Edit: The only reason I would drop Thunder is when I know the boss is about to go invulnerable (in about 10-15 seconds) or you need to burn an add in 10 seconds. Then yes, it is kinda silly to refresh a DoT

[StouterTaru]

Are you sure about that? Because I'm pretty sure I tested Aero and Shadowflare who are both 25 Potency DoT and Shadowflare seems to have a higher gain on Spell Speed for DoTs. To be exact, just the naked base DoT is stronger for Shadow Flare than Aero and this makes no absolute sense.

How big of a sample size did you have, and were you comparing average vs average or high vs high and low vs low?

A 2.2 base GCD is a 12% reduction from 2.5, which would give your DoT ticks 12% more damage. That makes a Thundercloud T3 give: 70 + 8*40 + 8*40*1.12 = 748.4 total potency.

[Aikaal]

How big of a sample size did you have, and were you comparing average vs average or high vs high and low vs low?

A 2.2 base GCD is a 12% reduction from 2.5, which would give your DoT ticks 12% more damage. That makes a Thundercloud T3 give: 70 + 8*40 + 8*40*1.12 = 748.4 total potency.

I don't have a big sample but you you go completely naked the DoT of shadowflare is 1 damage higher than Aero lol that's something I've noticed and that everyone that made the test notice and it makes absolute no sense test because the tooltip specify both of them are spells with potency of 25. at 500 Spell Speed it became two damage higher but my samples are not developed mainly because I don't have the time lol.

Also, Attack Speed devalues Spell Speed because you need 66 Spell Speed for 1% GCD Reduction and I definitely noticed and probably everybody can confirm me that your Spell Speed doesn't have as big of an impact when under Leylines because your base GCDs are 2.125 and 2.55 If what you're saying is true (which I hope you are not) Attack Speed would have a negative impact when casting DoTs but it is unlikely if Judge_Xero made the test

[StouterTaru]

snip

I tested Aero vs Shadow Flare on SCH, and it does appear there is about a 1% damage difference. That's 25.0 potency vs 25.3 potency, so it looks like they have different potency values but are both rounded to 25.

Ley Lines doesn't change Dot tick damage, it's calculated separately.

Thundercloud testing numbers:

	Freeze	DoT	TC III
low	3831	439	982
high	4230	486	1085
adj	4032.6	462.1	1033.7
adj	4028.6	462.9	1033.3
pot	100.00	44.70	390.12
pot	100.00	44.79	389.86

What numbers mean:

• Columns are for Freeze cast, DoT tick, and Thundercloud III cast
• high and low are high and low non-crit values
• adj are those values adjusted for the +/-5%, high/1.05, low/0.95. The closer these number are to each other, the more accurate the result
• pot is the potency of those adjusted numbers, based off Freeze potency of 100

Number analysis:

• GCD was 2.19, 12.4% reduction, DoT tick increase is about 11.9% increase in damage based off Freeze potency
• Thundercloud III potency is 390 based off Freeze, which is exactly what you would expect if the DoT damage increase from SS wasn't added in

[Aikaal]

Thundercloud testing numbers:

	Freeze	DoT	TC III
low	3831	439	982
high	4230	486	1085
adj	4032.6	462.1	1033.7
adj	4028.6	462.9	1033.3
pot	100.00	44.70	390.12
pot	100.00	44.79	389.86

Does look like you've swapped your numbers for Freeze and TC III lol

There's no gain from the Thundercloud proc from Spellspeed. SE should adjust their Thundercloud tooltip because it does say "it will add its full damage over time damage amount to its initial damage. Did it by comparing Fire IV and the potencies were similar. Then again, TC3 Proc would be pretty broken if it would get double the Spellspeed Potency bonuses from DoTs.

The Potency bonus is definitely not the same as the GCD reduction. It looks like for every 1% GCD reduction you get, your DoTs increases by about 0.95% That's good to know because most BLMs are at about 12% GCD reduction with their spell speed so if we round at around a 11.5% DoT potency gain, we have ( 390 + 40 * 1.115 * 8 ) * 1.05 I'm adding the Enochian modifier because if you don't have Enochian... you did something terribly wrong lol. Its about 746.8 Potency and with the Enochian modifier, it's 784.14

Number aren't exact but it's nice to know at around 1150 Spell Speed, you gain 4.6 Potency per tick lol

I need to work on my stuff but things went horribly wrong at my job and I basically became an overtime tool lol

[Garotte14]

Snip

Welcome back. You're not wrong in your Thunder discussion. Thunder should most definitely be in a BLM's rotation. As far as Sharp > T1 on a single target, this is highly debatable. Now you can sit and throw numbers and math out all day long, but there are two things to take into consideration. 1) There is no way to quantify any math on Thunder + TCIII procs, because there are just too many possibilities. 2) It really does all depend strictly on the situation. Math does not take into consideration what Firestarter does by refreshing AF. Also movement plays a big factor. Especially in extremely long duration movement sections where having thunder ticking would be much more beneficial because of the % of additional procs during that movement, I would always recommend Sharp > T1 in that scenario.


Using Thunder > B4 > Fire III > TC proc > is definitely not optimal if you are sacrificing a Fire IV. Which isn't as much an issue now since our SS is so much higher. Yes, we know for certain that a TC proc with one tick is a higher PPS than Fire IV. That's also not the whole scenario because you can't just compare PPS against 1 spell vs another because of clipping on both ends. You have to take the PPS of the whole rotation which is where things get really tricky, because like I said before, you can't predict additional procs and when they will happen.

Regardless, its good to see you back. And btw, not sure if you've seen this. Take a look and let me know if you have any insight.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iws0GeBJv2fJLJOJX4TyywPy6f0x_eR5uHMC8EiyGLI/edit?usp=sharing

[zuzu-bq]

Sharp > Thunder seems to be the biggest potency increase in most if not all cases but sometimes if I know I'll have to move I like to sharp my Fire so I gain more mobility, keep Astral Fire with more ease while positioning myself better. Not only that, Thunder proc chances in a single dot apply are lower than then a Firestarter in a single Fire cast though but yes, I'm relying on RNG to keep big numbers and in the end the loss isn't that huge if you do that only sometimes. So its up to playstyles I think. But I don't know, I'm just started tring to maximize my BLM recently so I can be saying wrong stuff. Please correct me if I'm wrong. :P

I now wonder whats the chance of proc for Thunder in a single dot apply. I'm bad at math.

[Aikaal]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

Oh hi, I'm waiting my week of 8 days of work to be done and I might take a look at it mainly for the Piety stuff. I did check already but I'm really not a big fan of books lol. I'm the kind that usually explore the job first then I ask min max questions so this kind of work isn't for me xD

It looks pretty good for someone that has zero knowledge on Black Mage. I do plan on doing an update soon for the openers, I'm using new openers but I haven't compared them yet so I need to work on that xD

[Lavitz_]

Dervy is making some good progress on his BLM stuff: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...05_blm_parses/

Can't wait to see the finished result.