Pld Oath's on GCD

[Lyth]

DRK's playstyle is uninteresting and holding it back from being as well designed as WAR. NIN and MNK are the fast jobs, If SE wanted DRK to be fast they should have done it in a way that doesn't waste so many skill slots.

It depends on the fight, really. In fights where you have negligible Grit uptime, such as A7S, your BW usage pushes up your APM significantly. In fact, there are a couple of examples of early progression clears where the DRK actually marginally beats out the MNK, NIN, and MCH in terms of APM. This might also be dependent on jail assignments, but it's still somewhat surprising to see.

I love the design. It doesn't need to be childproofed. A bit of challenge is good for us.

Thats my point, I never said that DV was bad, just not comparable to SP. There are mechanics that it is good for (every single 2H in the game, nidhoggs ahk morn and other stack mechanics etc.), but it is very situational, whereas a WAR can keep SP on the boss at all times. Thinking about it, the comparable skills are really RoH and SP, as they both reduce damage, at the cost of DPS. The difference here is that SP is better than RoH (slightly lower potency for a much better effect).

RoH is a bit of a strange one. It tends to be more of a personal benefit to the PLD than it is a raid debuff, given the relative scarcity of physical AoEs.

[Lambdafish]

RoH is a bit of a strange one. It tends to be more of a personal benefit to the PLD than it is a raid debuff, given the relative scarcity of physical AoEs.

RoH is basically the PLD of skills (perfect really), it is great in physical fights (amazing in Thordan), and useless in magic based fights. SP is better in that it gives a 10% damage down (i.e. all damage, not just physical), AND absorbs HP from the hit.

[SpookyGhost]

I love the design. It doesn't need to be childproofed. A bit of challenge is good for us.

IMO, it's less a problem of it being "challenging" and more that they shoved a bunch of DPS oGCDs... on a tank. It's like, imagine they threw Rampart, Sentinel, and [HG equivalent] on DRG - that's basically DRK in terms of playstyle. DRK functions fine, don't get me wrong, it just kinda feels like you're playing a DPS who has to be in front of the boss.

[Lyth]

The "tanking" element of the three tanks plays out essentially the same, with slight variations depending on how many cooldowns the fight allows your particular tank. It's just a question of how quickly you can pick up and learn patterns. In terms of rotations, though, tanks, even at lvl 60, generally tend to have even simpler rotations than your typical level 30 pugilist or lancer. While any rotation becomes second nature with practice, it's just nicer to have something a bit more engaging than counting to three... or alternatively, counting to five. If you stuck Rampart, Sentinel, and HG on to a DRG, it probably would be significantly more challenging to tank on than anything we have currently.

[Brian_]

except i never say tanks do 0 dps, something inposible, lets say 90% of total dps need it by 4 dps, ok its ok, 90% divided by 4 are 22.5% per dps plus whe have 2 tanks in scene, 1 single tank do already the half dps of a normal dps in tank mode so you get 11% there making already the 100%, even if whe take the lowest scenario and say 80% its the same 4 dps doing 20% each and 2 tanks doing 10-15%, if you add healers dps whe have a lot of dps to clear all.

You clearly didn't understand what I said at all. SE tunes their DPS checks based on each DPS performing at 85~90% of their full potential. If you are capable of parsing for 2k on a dummy, SE tunes assuming you will parse 1700-1800 in a live fight. No real static is capable of that in a live fight. It's impossible given human imperfections and the existence of mechanics.

So while they say they don't factor in healer DPS and only basic tank DPS from auto attacks and your enmity combo, anyone that actually does the content knows that you need the DPS from tanks and healers -- especially during progression before DPS is fully optimized.

And you say A8S is easy but where is your proof? The stats disprove your statement. You can only rely on baseless statements.

[SpookyGhost]

And you say A8S is easy but where is your proof? The stats disprove your statement. You can only rely on baseless statements.

Illegal operation detected...
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Commence auto-clean!

[Brian_]

And regarding ShO/SwO vs. Defiance/Deliverance, as a PLD who switched to WAR but still tries to play both, there is no comparison.

I've said this many times already in topics similar to this one but people always ignore the full package that Defiance / Deliverance enable. You can't ignore the strength of abilities that can only exist because of the Defiance / Deliverance mechanics -- skills like Inner Beast, Equilibrium, Fell Cleave, Decimate, etc. They are as much a part of the design of Defiance / Deliverance as the innate bonuses in any tank stance. Not to mention that Deliverance does have an upfront bonus.

The end result is WAR is significantly better at managing incoming and outgoing damage through the use of their stances. They have far superior flexibility, adaptability, and control with their stance usage than the other tanks.

Before HW, I don't think there was any argument to make oaths oGCD. But, since then, the balance of tank stances has changed a lot. To me, the GCD cost of oaths is just another PLD mechanic that is antiquated and balanced based on an outdated standard.

Before, the GCD cost of SwO made sense because they paid that GCD for the AA bonus whereas WAR could drop Defiance oGCD but got nothing and lost access certain skills and their crit bonus. Now, it makes no sense because WARs can swap to Deliverance oGCD, gain a crit bonus, gain a 5% damage boost, and gain access to a TP regen, FC, and Decimate.

Before, the GCD cost of ShO made sense because they paid that GCD for the upfront mitigation whereas WAR still needed healing after swapping to Defiance. Now, it makes less sense because WARs have access to Equilibrium and have much more control over their own HP. What bonuses did ShO receive since? Outside of a slight buff which was needed, none.

[shao32]

snip

then i miss undesrtand you post, my apologize.

SE makes every DPS checks diferent for every fight, depending of many factors 2 important thinks are 1 human skill, 2 ilvl, SE makes her DPS checks for only 4 dps doing a estimated dps with a estimated ilvl and same for 2 tanks doing another estimated average dps number with x ilvl but never they max dps in dps stance , they dont make the dps check for 4 dps and a war and if you dont have a war you dont even try it bcs is imposible.

the cheeck are determinated too by the ilvl players are supose to need to clear the the floor or the trial, every extra dps you can get from tanks and healers is a bonus not a requeriment.

and i dont say AS8 in particular is easy, i say the content, including midas in general, AS8 is hard but no for the dps cheeks.