Something need to be done in how tanks acquiring Provoke

[Nestama]

Skipped a few pages so unsure if it has been said.

Just toss a Provoke action into the level 15 slot for WAR and DRK (ROG has two level 15 actions, for example) and take GLA's Provoke off of the Cross-Class table. Bam. No more "y u no have provoke?" drama.

[Kosmos992k]

It's funny reading all the posts treating this as some sort of problem that must be mitigated. It's nothing of the sort. The fact is that to be a well rounded tank, you need to experience being the tank in multiple ways, by doing so you can gain important skills that a more narrowly focused player will lack. In all honesty, this is something that is functioningas intended,and that's not a bad thing.

[Duelle]

The fact is that to be a well rounded tank, you need to experience being the tank in multiple ways, by doing so you can gain important skills that a more narrowly focused player will lack.

I'm not sure if I buy this. Whether thee player gets the crucial skills from one class or three is sort of irrelevant as long as that player understands the principles behind the role of tank (hold aggro, don't stand in the bad stuff, don't die).

I'm also not a fan of making people do things they don't want to do, firstly because its easier to bore someone when they're doing something they hate, and secondly because I believe that one should pursue extra things out of their own volition and once they feel relatively satisfied with their "main" objective. I personally didn't start leveling other jobs until I was almost "done" working on my PLD. What really pushed me into doing it is that SE distributes the lore behind the game between class quests (which means I have to do them all to get the full picture). Additionally, I knew that in order to get a good grasp of mechanics and approaches to design (which then allows me to pollute the Class Role forums with job suggestions >.>), I needed to play the other jobs.

[Kosmos992k]

I'm not sure if I buy this. Whether thee player gets the crucial skills from one class or three is sort of irrelevant as long as that player understands the principles behind the role of tank (hold aggro, don't stand in the bad stuff, don't die).

it's un-needed for normal content, but for raiding, and end-game, you go the extra mile, why not buy into it, are not end-gamers meant to be the 'best' players?

[Nihility]

Entitlement?! I know this is the buzzword of the decade, but I hardly think it applies here. The point is that cross-class abilities are not mentioned at all in-game. Heck, I found them by accident when I hit the wrong hotbutton and opened my abilities window. If they are important enough to be considered required, then they should at least get some sort of mention in-game that leveling alternate classes is about more than just opening the job you want.

Not mentioned anywhere in game... except for in the games active help as a pop up as soon as you hit level 10 for the first time

[Freyyy]

Not mentioned anywhere in game... except for in the games active help as a pop up as soon as you hit level 10 for the first time

So after reading this, you really think that all new MRD players who just hit level 10 will suddenly say to themselves "Oh, gotta absolutely pick the other tank job up to see what useful tanking skills I can get !" ? Maybe ! Maybe they will, so they'll level GLD up to 10 and see that they can cross-class Savage Blade, which definitely comes in handy as a MRD. The only way to see that they can cross-class Provoke is to either actually hit level 22 as GLD and see that it appears in the cross-class abilities list, or to read all of your skills tooltip to see that some are usable by every class in the game and two Jobs, which is a little too much of an expectation towards a brand new player to the game. This shitty pop-up tutorial at level 10 is far from being enough for people to actually KNOW that they HAVE to take Provoke from level 22 GLD. Most of the time new players will know that when another player actually TELLS them, or when watching a guide on the internet, which not everyone does. They should AT LEAST put a message on the level 30 job quest as I've said, or put it as a requirement for unlocking the job crystal. They also could improve the cross-class skills interface by already displaying all the skills you can get from all the classes without having to actually level them first, with a special highlight on what is heavily recommended for each job. There is plenty of solutions, not that hard to implement.

[Shurrikhan]

it's un-needed for normal content, but for raiding, and end-game, you go the extra mile, why not buy into it, are not end-gamers meant to be the 'best' players?

There really isn't enough variance between the three tanks to really give advantage to leveling all three in terms of really understanding your role.

I can see how going from WAR, who is often optimally played as a brawler and is often best played just short of exhausting your healer, to PLD with its complete lack of AoE that makes doing whatever you can to allow the healer his extra mile of extra-role functions, can be helpful. But you can as easily learn that balance on Warrior itself, or Dark Knight; they all teach you equally how much of an enmity margin you should have, how to make use of your dps opportunities, how to maximize others', how to save lives, how to optimize on raid dps, etc. There's just not that big of a gameplay difference between them.

In most cases, you'd be better off playing a healer or dps for your next view into what it means to be a tank.

So after reading this, you really think that all new MRD players who just hit level 10 will suddenly say to themselves.

^

Especially when it'll take more than double the levels they just got in order to, say, grab Provoke?

[Nihility]

So after reading this,you really think that all new MRD players who just hit level 10 will suddenly say to themselves "Oh, gotta absolutely pick the other tank job up to see what useful tanking skills I can get !" ? Maybe ! Maybe they will, so they'll level GLD up to 10 and see that they can cross-class Savage Blade, which definitely comes in handy as a MRD. The only way to see that they can cross-class Provoke is to either actually hit level 22 as GLD and see that it appears in the cross-class abilities list, or to read all of your skills tooltip to see that some are usable by every class in the game and two Jobs, which is a little too much of an expectation towards a brand new player to the game. This shitty pop-up tutorial at level 10 is far from enough for people to actually KNOW that they HAVE to take Provoke from level 22 GLD. Most of the time new players will know that when another player actually TELLS them, or when watching a guide on the internet, which not everyone does. They should AT LEAST put a message on the level 30 job quest as I've said, or put it as a requirement for unlocking the job crystal. They also could improve the cross-class skills interface by already displaying all the skills you can get from all the classes without having to actually level them first, with a special highlight on what is heavily recommended for each job. There is plenty of solutions, not that hard to implement.

Bad players will be bad. The game tells you what to look for and how to use it.
It gives full display of all learnable skills for all classes to anyone willing to look. It shows you how to find and use your skills list and how to use cross class abilities
It actively tells you what classes each job can cross class from as you obtain them
If you have no desire to even give the skills a glance over of the classes your forced to play to unlock a job and then told they're your sources of cross-class skills, how helpless are you really?

the term "entitled" is used for good reason. The game gives you all the tools you need to figure out how to play it and even has an entire community of players willing to help if there are questions.
Yet so many people act like every tiny aspect of every single thing should be spelled out and rewarded like the playerbase is a kindergarten class instead of people who have developed problem solving skills.

Should the game also remind you to eat, breathe, and sleep? Can't have people suffocating because there's no forced tutorial on it

[Cakekizyy]

Why anyone would think an aquireable crossclass skill is not important to be efficient in their role is beyond me... I would hope they learn that lesson while equipping bloodbath and foresight while leveling on their gladiator in order to become a warrior but I guess for the players you are talking about they are going to need to actually use the mentor system cause they are going to be clueless about anything under these circumstances unless the skill is flat out given to them.

Are you saying Cure is important to be efficient as a PLD?

[Nihility]

Are you saying Cure is important to be efficient as a PLD?

Dunno about you but I've had enough occasions in leveling dungeons paired with healers that can't get a grasp on "don't stand in red" that riot blade + cure is what got the group through to a victory
That I consider it a cross-class slot well filled