WC PSA: stop freeing the players who mess mechanics

[Destous]

I've had my moment of frustration with the OP, but there is a point to be made here that's valid: In an ideal situation, players learn how pass mechanics, not fail them. Players failing mechanics is something, I hope, no one wants. And that's the OP's goal.


my point is: the OP is suggesting a rather absurd method to address a problem that probably has better alternatives, if it's something that's even feasible to fix. Ultimately, as much as we all want to, we can't control the 23 other people we end up with.

It's not absurd. If the goal is impossible, then you try harder. Shoot for the moon, land among the stars (actual distances not valid in this metaphor). This thread is full of people who are satisfied to just stare up at the sky.

[Ilan]

It's not absurd. If the goal is impossible, then you try harder. Shoot for the moon, land among the stars (actual distances not valid in this metaphor). This thread is full of people who are satisfied to just stare up at the sky.

Like you, yes.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

If the goal is impossible, then you try harder. Shoot for the moon, land among the stars.

If this is how you feel, then I think you need to find a better way to teach. Some people run these things on auto-pilot, this I know, but others I'm sure go in giving it 100%, and will get hit by all of the following you mentioned previously. I'm sure you've had you're trouble with mechanics in EX or savage content, where its taken a little longer than normal to learn because you just can't grasp it that quickly, and just because the content is easier, doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who are 100% perfectly capable to learning it on the first try or that they aren't even trying. Lord knows I've had my problems with various mechanics and its usually due to juggling multiple things, but anyways, what I'm saying is, you're going overboard. I'm not saying coddle these so called "Bad" Players, but give them guidance, point them in the right direction and show them a thing or two instead of just letting them fail repeatedly until you get pissed and make a forum thread about it. Some people will do what they normally do "You're not my mom, stop telling me what to do!!", but others will most likely enjoy that you gave them a smidge of help in something that may or may not be difficult for them, but where they actually could use the tip/help/info about whatever it is you're failing.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I got a perfect solution. Play with friends and you won't have to teach a soul ever again! I am a genuis!

[KitomiSaitichi]

Look people. You are all getting heated for no reason.

The poster is not arguing about :
- The occasional internet disconnection
- The occasional wireless keyboard / mouse stopped
- The occasional "take care of baby / family" scenario
- The occasional hardware, software, computer-glitch problem
- The occasional late reaction to a telegraphed circle
- New players who don't yet understand the dungeon
- Slow players who don't have nice reflexes
- Players who can't comprehend the theoretical explanation and adapt it right into gameplay

The poster is specifically arguing against :
- The player who intentionally just does not attempt to dodge "orange" damaging circles which anyone has seen since a level 1 mob using its cone attack because they think it won't kill them / too lazy to try / someone else that will
- The player who makes no attempt at improvement despite repeating tellings of what went wrong / what caused the wipe, multiple times

For resolution, the poster specifically amends that :
- The player should not get any loot until they master the mechanic
- The player should be punished in some way that makes them make remends to their behavioral mindset around playing the game that is to the detriment of the group (in all cases) - basically they are the type of the player that says "I want to play how I want to play, I don't have to give a damn consideration about other players, I can stand in every circle, provoke off every mob, pull everything, not heal - because others will cover for me"

Aside from the technicalities of :
- Causing a wipe, wasting other people's time because we didn't save them

In hopes that :
- Said player will actually "try" next time instead of just sitting and eating every AoE, fight after fight, never improving

The poster just wants that :
- People try their best, and play in the spirit of wanting to clear the dungeon / raid whatever, instead of forcing others to DPS/heal/tank for them when said player dies from a mechanic due to no improvement in "awareness of orange circles", "attempt to dodge orange circles", "anticipation of orange circles" or any of such cues

For all other cases :
- Just teach someone if you see a "new" player appear, be patient
- Give a refresher, a few lines, before starting the fight if you need to
- Mention the mistake, clarify if everyone can try to execute the "mechanic" appropriately next time, with no blame on any specific person

That is all, people. The analogy is your co-worker, takes credit for the work you do on a responsibility fill-in sheet, while he/she just sits there and expects you to do the work,and he/she gets promoted. In this game, it's loot. The analogy is not, the poster expects a level of equity of gameplay from a disabled player, someone with a bad day/sickness/tiredness/illness - to the performance standard of a healthy individual.

In summary, "try your best if you can"
Obviously, if you're really sick, or your internet always goes down at the same time every day, or whatever insert excuse here, and you know it beforehand, then it is technically inconsiderate to the other players that you're wasting their time by not being present.

Anyhow, I think this is what easy, hard and extreme modes are for. Each requires a higher level of dedication, performance and focus. Most players or some players just don't care or value the competitive spirit of achievement, so I personally don't mind if they're playing sub-optimally in "easy" mode dungeons / raids nor that they remain less skilled. However, I can see why 'hard' and 'extreme' modes can't tolerate these types of players.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

If the player is intentionally running into AOEs and the like, I'm pretty sure their intention is to die in the first place. Ergo, refusing to help them is basically doing exactly what they want you to do. And if the player screwing up gets punished via "everyone suffers" (which already happens now if you botch certain mechanics), they aren't really going to learn from their mistakes unless someone points it out or they get kicked out anyway.

[thegreatonemal]

[QUOTE=snip[/QUOTE]

You'd have a point if it was just one person caught in it the lazy person. however lots of people get caught in it (no depending on where the aoe was put down melees can't hit all their positional without getting caught in it as well) you two are basically saying let the lazy person along with the 3 or 4 other people who were doing what they supposed to do die to "punish the lazy person" break the trap it takes two seconds and move on

[Malin-HunnysMonsta]

This might have been covered somewhere in the ranting, but please listen with regards to the hair mechanic.

On more than a few occasions now I have been trapped in the Hair mechanic, but neither one was my fault.
Picture the scene;
About half a dozen individuals fighting in melee range of the boss, one gets targeted for hair and drops the AoE marker right between rear and flank. Where are we melees supposed to go?
Can't get any positionals in and around that AoE area, front is a cleave zone (tried seeking refuge there before and it was clearly a no go for a non-tank;;; ) and the other side is hair-cleave zone.

Some have said before in this topic that there is loads of free space to move from the hair-rot AoE. Yes, there's loads of room for ranged players, but us melees only have a very tight space in this particular situation and it only takes a slight misstep from one to suck us all in.

As nice as it would be to teach some of these individuals a lesson by letting them die to their mistake, unfortunately in doing so you run the risk of punishing good players in the process as they were unwillingly caught by something kind of out of their control.
Sadly, it's just a thing you have to put up with. Tbh, you're not going too out of your way spending a few attacks on the hair.

[Brannigan]

The whole "well I didn't step on the trap but I got sucked in anyway" thing is kinda weird. I mean, the suck in has a limited range, right? Go farther away from the land mine when you see it drop and you can't get sucked in even if Tommy Two-lefts dances all over it. Either way, people are getting too hung up on that particular example. What about assimilation? You can READ THE TOOLTIP of the debuff and it tells you to not look at the big glowing orb. People still sit there and get encased in rocks. Let 'em die. OP is absolutely right and the reason the average level of play in the game is so horrible is because SE severely undertunes almost everything outside of savage/EX, letting people pass when they should be failing.

[Ilan]

This might have been covered somewhere in the ranting, but please listen with regards to the hair mechanic.

On more than a few occasions now I have been trapped in the Hair mechanic, but neither one was my fault.
Picture the scene;
About half a dozen individuals fighting in melee range of the boss, one gets targeted for hair and drops the AoE marker right between rear and flank. Where are we melees supposed to go?
Can't get any positionals in and around that AoE area, front is a cleave zone (tried seeking refuge there before and it was clearly a no go for a non-tank;;; ) and the other side is hair-cleave zone.

Some have said before in this topic that there is loads of free space to move from the hair-rot AoE. Yes, there's loads of room for ranged players, but us melees only have a very tight space in this particular situation and it only takes a slight misstep from one to suck us all in.

As nice as it would be to teach some of these individuals a lesson by letting them die to their mistake, unfortunately in doing so you run the risk of punishing good players in the process as they were unwillingly caught by something kind of out of their control.
Sadly, it's just a thing you have to put up with. Tbh, you're not going too out of your way spending a few attacks on the hair.

And thats what some people, especially the OP, don't understand. Melees could avoid it if they stay away from the Boss until the trap disappears, but that would be also wrong in their eyes.