DPS requirements to unlock duties?

[Evangela]

That'll make us wait longer to get people in DF and PF.

[Imoen]

Does Final Fantasy have an E-sport scene I don't know about or something? With the amount of crap I see like this, I feel like I'm missing out on some pro scene or something.

To the point, I have no problems with teaching players how to play better, in a constructive fashion. However; This game wasn't ever intended to be on the bleeding edge of competition or play. The thing you suggest already exists, its called "ilvl" it is a thing. Anyone meeting the ilvl should be able to complete said thing. I don't think more blocks like beating a dummy is going to solve anything, except teach people how to beat on a dummy really well.... That's my 2 gil.

[Daranion]

Ah but there's the thing that all of you bring up. Just because you have the ilvl, doesn't meant you know your rotation enough to actually leverage it. Say someone just meets the ilvl, and this is an earnest player who is excited for the content. Now this player up to this point has been doing a very basic rotation, simple as can be that they figured out on their own. Now this same player now wants to fight say "nidhogg Ex" He queues in with the learning PF and the party gets through 1st phase. The now get to 2nd phase and quickly learn the balls and reds blues etc. They're pumped, fight is cool the whole nine yards. And then they wipe to the blue pillar. A minor setback? Try again, another wipe, try, wipe. Even if they minimize any incoming healing that the add gets they cannot beat it! And why is that? BEcause nothing ingame ever told them they're not doing enough DPS from their own skills to leverage the power their ilvl gear gets them. They have the potential but nothing that indicates where the problem is! How in this situation would the SSS dummy not blowing up NOT be a useful tool? It'd just be a one time thing to unlock it in the PF and quite frankly, if you don't know a rotation at the bare minimum you shouldn't be allowed to waste yours and other group members time attempting to learn a fight you won't even see the later phases of. Not until you get the basics down. Even if players are lazy gits and just blow it up once to be lazy later on, that's fine at least they CAN and have the know how. It's better in my eyes to have the knowledge and not use it, than want to clear but be ignorant.

[Imoen]

Dummies teach you this how?

Beat X HP on static object with no mechanics = win = know rotation?

Sorry not trying to be a jerk, just seriously how does this equate to better play? You promote better rotations ect... a tool tip, or tutorial can do that, a dummy is just a dummy.

Correct me if I am wrong, you are suggesting a dummy that blows up at a set HP mark based on "dps"? If that is exactly what you are suggesting then how does this differ to any, already present in game mechanic that makes you do so? Because they are not in your group? Because you don't like it? I assume you are a good guy just trying to help people get better. If I am right on that, this does nothing than what is already present in game. Difference being a pop up dialog vs some mad person.

I'm not against your idea, just I don't see how it helps either, there was a pretty cool rating system suggested at one point that gets people into it (obviously not everyone, it assumes you care enough in the first place) but a straight up block to the fight will turn anyone wanting to "know" the game off immediately.. I can't get half my friends in real life to play this because of the lore dialogs, I highly doubt they would make it past some HP sponge dummy just to get into action. Might help you short term, but not the game long term. Any learning needs to be interactive fun, and presented in a way that doesn't seem "dull".

[StrejdaTom]

The thing you suggest already exists, its called "ilvl" it is a thing. Anyone meeting the ilvl should be able to complete said thing. I don't think more blocks like beating a dummy is going to solve anything, except teach people how to beat on a dummy really well.... That's my 2 gil.

iLvl? Ha ha ha ha ha, no, just no.
iLvl in any chance doesn't separate good players from the bad ones. iLvl 220 guy can easily do more than guy at iLvl 240.
What iLvl definitely does is, that it locks experienced guys on alt characters/ alt jobs from duties or party finders while someone who doesn't even know rotation but bought lore gear + upgrades from Weeping can enter.
iLvl would be good measure of player's ability to play if there weren't catchup patches which give you 240 upgrades even for banging your head on keyboard.

[Imoen]

iLvl? Ha ha ha ha ha, no, just no.
iLvl in any chance doesn't separate good players from the bad ones. iLvl 220 guy can easily do more than guy at iLvl 240.
What iLvl definitely does is, that it locks experienced guys on alt characters/ alt jobs from duties or party finders while someone who doesn't even know rotation but bought lore gear + upgrades from Weeping can enter.
iLvl would be good measure of player's ability to play if there weren't catchup patches which give you 240 upgrades even for banging your head on keyboard.

Didn't say it did. Please read next time. I quote from myself....

" Anyone meeting the ilvl should be able to complete said thing"

If your so smart... please enlighten me as to how you would do it better, at least OP is trying to address the issue, you're just being an ass.

[Daranion]

Imoen it's precisely because it;s a solo experience that makes it better than just wiping in the instance ove3r and over. How can you tell its you that need to improve if the group is failing a DPS check? It's purely a tool that provides a bare minimum benefit and one that's sorely needed. No other factors, noone else to blame. If you don't know how to put out enough DPS in a completely sterile environment then that's building block number 1.

[Imoen]

Imoen it's precisely because it;s a solo experience that makes it better than just wiping in the instance ove3r and over. How can you tell its you that need to improve if the group is failing a DPS check? It's purely a tool that provides a bare minimum benefit and one that's sorely needed. No other factors, noone else to blame. If you don't know how to put out enough DPS in a completely sterile environment then that's building block number 1.

ok? I still don't see how this helps. I'm fine with a tool, like I said, but this doesn't provide a tool, it provides an HP sponge, which we already have. Basically the way I see it framed here is....

A solo HP sponge that some how makes people better, that some how makes your bad experience you had better. Nothing here to promote better play in a fun or engaging way.

Let me put it like this, if you were fresh off the press, first mmo, first game ever, would you be excited to beat on a brick block? I could see some sort of Training grounds or testing grounds with a boss being a cool thing, but not a dummy. Even then though, either it needs to be a series of text prompts explaining things or a player ( /cough ... mentors. Showing people things and explaining them)

[Daranion]

So tell me this Imoen, let's say for example you need to do 1000 DPS in a fight but currently you can only pull 700. In my constantly used example of Nidhogg wipes how exactly would you find out that you were the one holding people back because you don't know your class well enough? And besides, you talk as if this feature isn't in game already. What do you think Stone Sky and Sea is? Its a dummy with an HP cap that you have to beat in 3 minutes by doing the minimum DPS that a fight i tuned for. My suggestion is ALREADY in game. ITs just not mandatory. I'm saying, make it mandatory

[Drashir]

Any sort of Proving Ground would be rendered pointless, simply due to how players tend to run content.

SE implements Proving Grounds - Here's a few targets, do the thing, avoid the bad, kill the stuff. Person passes.

Actual Dungeon - Tank and Healer pulls half the mobs up to first boss. And then complains that DPS is slow, but don't know that young Billy is still fairly new to the game or even MMO's.

No matter what SE does, the "Gud" players will always find reasons to admonish the "bad" players. Always.

I would love to see a Proving Grounds, I recently got my wife into FF14, she has never played an MMO before. She is loving the game however she would like something that can put her in a raid type setting with out actually going into one, because she is afraid to be branded as a noobatron 4000 "that's what she has heard me call them prior to her playing".