3.4 speculation

[Frederick22]

Are you seriously suggesting that people cannot weigh in with their thoughts just because they don't post here frequently or aren't widely known by a select few? There are a lot of people who view threads and debates here without posting themselves. I did that myself for quite a while before I began posting here.

Do you recall when I mentioned earlier on in the thread that this board can often feel like a biased echo chamber? That attitude doesn't do a whole lot to dispel that view.

wait what? I never said such things. That I wanna dictate who talks and who now? just wow...

Catboys in glass houses shouldn't cast stones... that said, I don't believe anyone appointed you as being in charge of who gets to say what, or when. So do calm down.

I will say, it is interesting to see our moralists-in-chief reveal their true colours, beneath the very thin veneer of politeness.

Like Theoric, I got confused. Btw talking about "showing my true colors". Seriously you just couldnt make that more offensive and rude...


Someone comes from no where with a rude acctive, active defensive and continue with a discussion that ended and putting a comment that doesnt say anything about Theo being a nazi lover. What you think I did wrong on defending Parcher?
When I ment "who are you" I meant that she is nobody to accuse her of saing such offensive words.
Accusing people for calling orther "nazi lover" with no prove, place where has no right on doing such thingd and that this is supposed to be a thead to talk about thins peacefully and friendy , is not good.

Im not gonna go deeper into this inmature thing, it already went to far.

[Berethos]

Without the presence of chosen ones to fight off primals and given the damage the primals do when summoned in such manners, the prospect of destroying the believers becomes a tantalizing solution(and one even the eorzean cities would have embraced, Gridania in particular).

Specific to this - it's an interesting conundrum.

Garlemald is justified in wanting the primal threat to not be a threat. It's the same thing the Scions ultimately want - to prevent those who are capable of summoning primals from doing exactly that.

However, from the Garleans we have seen portrayed in a meaningful way thus far, which is mainly just the upper echelons of the Garlean military and the highest reaches of leadership, their particular response has been to crush those capable because they seem to see just being capable as a threat.

Conflict designed to stop a threat creating more of said threat - sounds like the kind of things Ascians are wont to do, so here's my 3.4 (and possibly 3.5) speculation...we'll discover that the Ascians have indeed had a hand in Garlemald beyond Lahabrea and Gaius. It fits with their usual modus operandi, being involved like that, and would make room for some interesting twists (crazy level being the current emperor is possessed by an Ascian in the way Thancred was, but that's crackpot theory level stuff).

[ChazNatlo]

This just in. Patch 3.4, Hitler invades Hydelen, Winston Chuchill finds something favourable to say about Gaius.

Still working on completing the story, but to relate to the stated topic of the thread. I wouldn't mind seeing more of Yda and Papalymo.

[Slatersev]

This just in. Patch 3.4, Hitler invades Hydelen, Winston Chuchill finds something favourable to say about Gaius.

Still working on completing the story, but to relate to the stated topic of the thread. I wouldn't mind seeing more of Yda and Papalymo.

I'm really excited to see them again, which is funny because they're easily my least favorite Scions.

But Heavansward/3.0 has done SUCH a good gob reintroducing and developing Alphy, Y'shtola and Thancred that I can't wait to see what Square does with them, the rift that seems to be brewing between them has a lot of character potential for both.

[Cilia]

Seriously though, I haven't seen the new Ghostbusters movie, so you can ignore this 7,000 character review, please don't ban me...

It's solid! My one complaint is that none of the male characters are useful to the story - they range from useless at best to villainous at worst. Further details upon request, though I'll avoid spoilers as best as I am able.

... I don't agree with... the idea that [the Garleans] are completely and thoroughly evil - or even without justification for their actions. Much of the criticism directed at Garlemald is based off of warped modern day idealism and poorly thought out platitudes as far as I'm concerned. Much of the arguments against them can be summed up as 'war is bad', 'racism is bad', 'slavery is bad'. All are horrific things in the real world to be sure - but in a fictional setting that does not need to be bound by the same limitations it is perfectly possible for fictional organisations and races to be terribly flawed whilst still having noble goals - even if they're misguided.

I'm not convinced Garlemald is completely evil, but their flaws far outweigh their virtues. Their actions are reprehensible, and just because they're fictional doesn't make their actions more excusable. As I've iterated time and again (and you have so conveniently ignored), Garlemald was a small, backwater farming country before they made some magitek advancements, Solus zos Galvus became their emperor, and he told them to go forth and conquer. Garlemald's rise to power only began 50 years ago, so unlike with the Dragonsong War the truth of it is very unlikely to be lost to the mists of time. Any conflict they bring on themselves, any misfortune Garlemald (and by extension Garlean citizens) suffer is almost undoubtedly karma coming back to bite them. People would be happy if they'd turn off Conquest Mode, but they don't seem keen on that or relinquishing conquered territory.

Their goals are noble and very similar to ours - on the surface. But if you dig past that and think a bit about whether or not their means justify the ends, it becomes clear they don't. They claim to want Primal capturing technology to stop the beings from destroying the planet - but at the same time it's clear they also want it so people can stop using Primals against them and so they can potentially use Primals as aether batteries like the Allagans did. They claim genocide on the beast tribes will solve the Primal issue - it will, but the loss of life cannot be justified and it will just cause more and more survivors and other beast tribes to pray to their deity for salvation... meaning the Primal issue is just going to be exacerbated by this.

When given the option, I never needlessly fight and kill in vidja gaems. Pure Hero runs in the entire inFamous series, several perfect stealth and pacifist runs (at the same time) in Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I can't bring myself to engage in pointless violence when I have the option not to, nor will I abuse power just to make things easier. Just because it's fictional doesn't mean it's okay to go on bloody wars of conquest or kill people for fun... or at least I don't feel that way, and beneath the veneer of nobility that is all Garlemald is doing, to say nothing of how horribly they treat conquered peoples.

As for Ala Mhigo, the Autumn War with Gridania (and later the rest of the Alliance) was 100 years ago. That's longer ago than Solus zos Galvus' rise to power. I don't think they deserved to be conquered for it or that it was even a factor in their conquering. That said I do wish the refugees would stop excusing their crimes with "For Ala Mhigo!" because it's grating and old.

As for the Scions, I don't recall them really doing many morally grey things, so I don't see what there is to whitewash. Usually it's just us doing the fighting and killing, and as I tried to bring up with the Zodiac Weapon it does make us kind of a bad person if you think about it a bit. To the Alliance and Scions we are the Warrior of Light, paragon of virtue and steadfast ally of justice... while to pretty much everyone else we are effectively the Angel of Death. Still, while it is very unfortunate we have to kill, doing nothing will result in greater casualties on all sides. If I must kill the guilty to protect the innocent... then so be it.

What I don't understand is why nobody seems to think Hydaelyn calling up Minfilia so she could eat her is reprehensible... but given this is a Japanese game and it was for the communal good, yeeeeeeeeeah.....

[AutumnHarvestwind]

Specific to this - it's an interesting conundrum.

This is pretty interesting! We both fight to eradicate primal influence and existence, but one side is regarded with heroism and the other so villianous. Someone has mentioned before on this forums, that the Eorzean nations are still pretty unethical, Gridinia being xenophobic, Ul'dah being corrupted with money, etc, and Limsa Lominsa being a sort of gov't that's full of pirates and thiefs. But I guess we see our leaders trying to be more sympathetic and diplomatic, where as Garlemald wants to have no negotations and kill everyone lol. If the current leader being possessed by the ascian were true, i'd believe it straight out the bat. especially given the ishgard shit with thordan!

[Nalien]

What I don't understand is why nobody seems to think Hydaelyn calling up Minfilia so she could eat her is reprehensible... but given this is a Japanese game and it was for the communal good, yeeeeeeeeeah.....

Because that isn't what happened...

I'm really not sure where the concept of Hydaelyn acting maliciously comes from... It has been stressed at great lengths that Hydaelyn is weak, she couldn't talk to us following Praetorium and she couldn't even spirit Minfilia away without hijacking whatever Y'shtola was casting. I see nothing that suggests Hydaelyn wanted to eat Minfilia, I get the distinct impression that she wanted to tell Minfilia what WotM told us, and then wait for us to come collect her as we attempted to, except she made a mistake and was too weak to even talk to Minfilia directly when she arrived... Do you really think Hydaelyn was just giving Minfilia the silent treatment at that point, so she'd get distressed and opt to willingly sacrifice herself? All so she could fail to deliver a message to us and cut off mid sentence? No, Hydaelyn has been displayed as fairly incompetent at this point... What happened to Minfilia is an unfortunate consequence of that IMO. You honestly might as well be complaining that we killed Haurchefant IMO... Hydaelyn didn't check how many talk minutes she had left, and we didn't check our flank...

It honestly makes no sense to me... We were obviously going to come looking for Minfilia, if Hydaelyn is secretly bad and aiming to eat all the XIV waifus, then that was perhaps the dumbest plan to manipulate us with... That it calls her character into question is fairly telling IMO... Either she is much more manipulative and devious than I expect, or she is just an unfortunate victim in all this... I'd go with the later because, well... Look at what the Ascians do for a living... you think the plot is going to turn around and explain Hydaelyn is actually super evil because one person sacrificed herself for her, and the Ascians are justified in the countless lives they've ruined or worse through several Rejoinings? No, Hydaelyn is just incompetent and facing a threat she can't handle...

This is pretty interesting! We both fight to eradicate primal influence and existence, but one side is regarded with heroism and the other so villianous. Someone has mentioned before on this forums, that the Eorzean nations are still pretty unethical, Gridinia being xenophobic, Ul'dah being corrupted with money, etc, and Limsa Lominsa being a sort of gov't that's full of pirates and thiefs. But I guess we see our leaders trying to be more sympathetic and diplomatic, where as Garlemald wants to have no negotations and kill everyone lol. If the current leader being possessed by the ascian were true, i'd believe it straight out the bat. especially given the ishgard shit with thordan!

Gaius actually seemed fairly reasonable in his attempt on Eorzea... He sent an ultimatum, he could have just flown into the city-states with Ultima and taken over, but he opted to negotiate after having just solved our Primal problem... The Eorzean Alliance was even ready to accept the terms until Minfilia walked in and convinced everyone war was a better alternative than Garlean rule... A war that ended in the destruction of Ultima Weapon and the release and subsequent resummoning of Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan... Not to mention Hydaelyn having to exert the last of her strength defending us from Ultima... Garlean occupation is really going to have to be displayed as hellish in order to justify the current narrative... "but we want to worship Nald'Thal and let corrupt individuals attempt to assassinate the Sultanate!" is a piss poor justification for letting the Primals run amok again... I really don't get why people are so scared of Garlean rule, when groups can summon monsters that can steal your free will... I guess there was a scene with Garleans brainwashing children in 1.0 that might still be true (I'd hope not), but at least you can get on Garlemalds good side through service, you think Ifrits tempered get nice magitek toilets and air conditioning for their servitude?

[Alleluia]

FIRST OF ALL, she did not say such I thing. Did she said, "you are a nazi lover"?, no. Seriously is english your first languaje? Because it doesnt seem you undertood twhat she said properly.

SECOND, why just why you wanna get involve and continue this why? Who are you? Have you ever showed up on the lore threads before?

Dont come here for the "first time" acting so rude and saing off topic things, of a discussion that long since ended. Please.

... 'Kay.

Im not gonna go deeper into this inmature thing, it already went to far.

Considering how deep the hole is you just dug yourself, I'd say that's a good call! ^_^

[Alleluia]

Gaius actually seemed fairly reasonable in his attempt on Eorzea... He sent an ultimatum, he could have just flown into the city-states with Ultima and taken over, but he opted to negotiate after having just solved our Primal problem... The Eorzean Alliance was even ready to accept the terms until Minfilia walked in and convinced everyone war was a better alternative than Garlean rule...A war that ended in the destruction of Ultima Weapon and the release and subsequent resummoning of Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan... Not to mention Hydaelyn having to exert the last of her strength defending us from Ultima... Garlean occupation is really going to have to be displayed as hellish in order to justify the current narrative... "but we want to worship Nald'Thal and let corrupt individuals attempt to assassinate the Sultanate!" is a piss poor justification for letting the Primals run amok again... I really don't get why people are so scared of Garlean rule, when groups can summon monsters that can steal your free will... I guess there was a scene with Garleans brainwashing children in 1.0 that might still be true (I'd hope not), but at least you can get on Garlemalds good side through service, you think Ifrits tempered get nice magitek toilets and air conditioning for their servitude?

I don't think we can fault the city states for being reluctant to submit themselves to foreign rule, regardless of how cushy it may or may not be depending on their level of cooperation. Might just be me being American here, but "Give me liberty, or give me death!" seems appropriate in this situation and a sentiment I happen to sympathize with.

Garlemald would have had better luck proposing an alliance to help Eorzea deal with its primal problem. Acknowledge that the city-states are equals and meet them as friends. That's not happening b/c that's just not the current mindset in Garlemald. They think they're the only ones who can save the world, that they don't need allies, and that they're above everyone else anyway (due to their tech advances and their mission) and you can't form a viable alliance with a non-equal partner. Garlemald has a good goal, ie: "Stop primal summoning", but its getting bogged down by bad methodology. There are flaws in our methods, too, but (due in part to plot convenience/luck) they're still working so far for the most part. If the Garlean methodology problems can be corrected, I'd be very interested in contemplating a serious alliance with them.

I'm almost sure we'll have an alliance of convenience against the Ascians at some point. A true alliance might build out of that, as the Garleans involved interact with us on a more equal basis and both sides see the benefits of working together and Garleans are forced to see that Eorzeans (both Beastmen and non-Beastmen, hopefully) aren't necessarily the "savages" they believe.

[Toranja]

The parallel between that of Eorzea and Garlemald is best set with the Amerindians and the USA.