Selling clears maybe within the rules of the game - but is it within the spirit?

[MeiUshu]

any player who seriously thinks he needs to buy a clear really just needs a better FC.

nope that is not exactly how it works. I have been in FCs where we were well over hundred but they played among themselves with their own usual friends and ditn care of others, and this not only in one, two or three, but many. If you are not in the good papers of part of their close knit core group you are just a number to fill the ranks, small FCs too small not enough people.

So please no saying such advices that are totally dumb and silly

[FinaSel]

This actually happens? I've never seen this before.

In my server, you just recruit in party finder saying like "[Dungeon name] first time. Helpers and other first timers please join."
And they actually fill up really fast.

When I see them I either go for the bonus or just to help. It's also a good way to make connections and friends. But even when I try to join, they usually get filled up so fast that I receive the "This party is no long recruiting members" message.

Some are even like "First time to go to [dungeon name] as tank / healer. Looking for help".
In this situation, there isn't a bonus, but it still fills up fast.

I don't understand why people would sell / buy clears anyway? Why not just help for the bonus / make a connection with other people / just be helpful?

[LunaFaye]

I don't understand why people would sell / buy clears anyway? Why not just help for the bonus / make a connection with other people / just be helpful?

Some people are on servers that have a population of 50. No party finder will fill and some of the fights are not accessible via duty finder. Others don't have statics but still wanna experience that fight, some don't want to wait 3 months before getting a clear. There's so many reason why people would buy clears.

The reason you don't just go and help is, that when it comes lets say to raid content, you have a limited amount of chests. Nobody just gives away free loot and I've never seen a person buying a run that has 0 chests.
When it comes to primals, you mostly tell that person to die right at the start, so that person isn't gonna screw over the rest of the party with the mechanics. Then you just clear it and give the loot to that person.

Now if you just say you gonna help, you find yourself in that trial for 8 hrs and get frustrated since most of the buyers can't even after a couple of hours, figure out mechanics or come already unprepared, aka not meeting the dps check/gear/not knowing the fight etc.

Way faster to just collect the 3-20 mil and be done with it after a couple of minutes.

[Thayos]

nope that is not exactly how it works. I have been in FCs where we were well over hundred but they played among themselves with their own usual friends and ditn care of others, and this not only in one, two or three, but many.

Like I said, you need to find a better FC, lol.

Took me a few tries, but I ended up with a great one. They're out there, so don't give up.

Remember that like-minded people tend to eventually come together. When you finally discover that FC that's full of helpful people, you'll know it.

[MeiUshu]

Like I said, you need to find a better FC, lol.

Took me a few tries, but I ended up with a great one. They're out there, so don't give up.

Remember that like-minded people tend to eventually come together. When you finally discover that FC that's full of helpful people, you'll know it.

As i said i tried for years i think i speak by experience a large one and this includes server chsnge. Your advice is silly

[Thayos]

As i said i tried for years i think i speak by experience a large one and this includes server chsnge. Your advice is silly

You're on Balmung, which is by far and away the most populated server in the game.

If you seriously think there's not a helpful FC you could join on ALL OF BALMUNG, then you're just not looking hard enough. I'd tell you the same thing even if you were on my server, which is much smaller and has many healthy FCs.

And no, the FC I'm in isn't a unique little snowflake. We have a large house and a huge active core, and our leader (who is EXTREMELY helpful and knowledgeable) occasionally clears out players who've been gone for several months. The result is a vibrant, lively FC that's never empty and always helpful, with a great mix of hardcore, midcore and casual players.

Really, it all starts with the leadership. Get to know the leader, and that will be a good sign of whether the FC will have an individualistic vs. village mentality.

Random thought, you might want to look at the FC rankings on Lodestone and start checking out those FCs one by one.

[Reinha]

Reasons given against run selling:

(1) "Run buyers get to sneak into farm parties." While this is a problem directly created by run selling, it can be solved with a swift kick. This problem is also created by free carries by in-game friends, so if you oppose run selling for this reason you should also logically oppose people carrying in-game friends. Also take into account that not everyone who buys a carry does it to farm the place til their shoes wear off. It can be for an achievement (completionist) or a title (vanity). In those cases this particular reason to be against run selling doesn't apply.

(2) "People's accomplishments are undermined." This also applies to crafting; top crafters who have spend ridiculous amounts of time and effort and took risks to get where they are now have to watch non-crafters prance around with the latest glamours, furniture and bardings. Even if they refuse to sell their services there is no way to remain special because other crafters surely will sell theirs. If you are against the exchange of gil for something you can't yet obtain yourself, take a look at your glamour first. Could you, and did you, craft it yourself?

(3) "Paying for it is not the point of the game / is not in the spirit of the game." If it applies to PvE, then it must also apply to crafting. By logic you can't oppose one whilst not opposing the other. We can all craft and gather everything because of the armory system (yes even counting the crafter specialist system because you can swap souls) which means the only reasons we pay for others to craft us things are time, convenience (laziness), lack of skill and lack of interest. Those are the same reasons people buy PvE clears with gil. An active economy is a part of this game and everyone can take part in it with the same condition: no outside $ influence. Player made contracts are also within the spirit of the game, such as a fc crafter making battle gear for the raid team and getting a carry in exchange once the team has it on farm.

(4) "It promotes RMT." No more than crafted items, houses and relics do. In fact the most expensive things to buy in this game are large houses. Housing is severely limited and also unlock gameplay that isn't otherwise available. If you're going to blame players for promoting RMT with run sales, you must also blame SE for making housing expensive, making relic items expensive and making crafted items extremely convoluted and time-consuming to make (this makes them expensive). And if you're going to assume everyone who buys a clear is a gil buyer, well, you need to get a grip because gil rains on you from left and right if you actively play the game. That's how people get their relics, houses and glamours as well as raid clears.

(5) "It's greedy to ask money for something you could do for other people for free." Say that to crafter-gatherers, who surprisingly are not delighted to go gather a bunch of crap and craft some stranger all the nice glamours for free. If you have the skill, it's ok to get compensation for your time and effort. IMO this does not apply to ripping people off with housing though, because the customer may not have an equal chance to get the house as the seller did, unlike with crafting and raiding. There's a difference between working for someone and taking advantage of someone's misfortune.

[MeiUshu]

You're on Balmung, which is by far and away the most populated server in the game.

If you seriously think there's not a helpful FC you could join on ALL OF BALMUNG, then you're just not looking hard enough.

I will repeat it for you... they have their static and you are just a number to fill the ranks.. unless you are part of the high rank. I reached a point where idont accept help anymore from anyone never know what they say behind your back calling you trash because you are not good enough just like they call others from other groups.. so yes i speak knowing very well the problem and why your comment is dumb as best. Some find good fcs but is not that often or else you would not need to give this silly advice dont think your situation is a norm is not. For 100 that find a good fc 200 dont population has nothig to do with people that form that population. Your comment is silly and solves absolutely nothing. We will habe this conversation in a few months from now. Also on the contrary of you i believe the good of a group more important than my own. I dont seek something for myself alone but for the good of the mass .. if the fc is not going that direction is not worth it those that say one thing and do another those that take from you neber giving bsck
.you can chose not zo see it but i cant and how many inhabit a place doesnt a goid community/fc make... so yeah silly comment

[Aylis]

Each to his own I guess - thoughts?

The way I see it and look at it, in its own light it really is a double edged sword for the person buying the clear. Like...okay I can see the frustration building from a person who wants to be able to do the content. Struggling through DF, learning parties or parties being graceful enough to take a new person through this content. I can totally understand this being one side of the blade.

The other side of the blade being...Okay the person bought the clear which got rid of their tome bonus message which makes farm parties shudder and disband. That's all though. The person is still at the mercy of seven others that either may have done the content the normal way, or they might have bought the clear like the other person did. Who knows? Its still a gamble either way, only the person is now several million gil shorter.

To each their own I guess, but it still seems the best way to learn and do this content will always be sticking with a static group only. If that's not an option for the person, then its up to them only to sit down and decide that maybe their is content that is away from their grasp in doing and its perfectly okay cos stressing over a dumb game isn't fun or healthy.

[Thayos]

I will repeat it for you... they have their static and you are just a number to fill the ranks.. unless you are part of the high rank. I reached a point where idont accept help anymore from anyone never know what they say behind your back calling you trash because you are not good enough just like they call others from other groups..

I'm not disagreeing with you that there are lots of bad FCs out there! Of course there are.

But you are wrongly stating there are no FCs where you could be happy and get the help you need.

I bet if you posted on the Balmung forums (here or on reddit) and said you were looking for an established, helpful FC, you'd get plenty of invites. Or you could join one of the several new enthusiastic FCs and make your mark on an emerging group.

Either way, you have options. You are not a victim!

You're on Balmung. You have better access to helpful FCs than people on all the other servers, yet you're just sitting here throwing a pity party.

Who cares if you had a bad experience in the past? Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and find a FC that would be happy to have you. You'll fit in fine, as long as you're not always this negative.