Selling clears maybe within the rules of the game - but is it within the spirit?

[Xlantaa]

Of course it goes against the game spirit... In any game, and I include pay for win used for developers. But, problem is very complex. It is not only lazy players, could be simply a guy unable to find a party, so they pay this "mercenaries".

But is not faul of those who sell the clear. The fault is for those who buy them and also those who OBLIGUE people to have clears to join PF. No one will sell a run if no one is interested. One of the causes (but nto the main) peope buying clears is the constalty "No bonus or kick" in party finders. Which obligues people to have at least 1 clear to be able to join. And that player could be simply a good player with bad luck on parties and pay for the need to have the clear to join farm parties. The problem is very complex, all of them are not only lazy people wanting a carry, there are a lot of reasons. If we were less exigent with PF and less dickheads demanding perfection on all players, probably nothing like this happend. We need a community more similar to japanese one, which care much more about party than themselves. But a very hard thing on western players, becuase our culture is "fuck the ohters".

[coco1851]

This will end badly if it continues. No need to worry about whether or not a person earned it you will immediately be able to tell simply because power leveled nubs do not get good they simply get strung along, some will even be in here crying nerf because they never learned anything. Why will this end badly? Because before you know it there will be a lot of players that don't know up from down in end game content, people will want more players in fc & they'll use it to their advantage, will diminish the community because those that are willing to learn not pay their way will be treated unfairly (I have 3 experiences that describes this),egos will go up: I can clear this, can you? Take this as you want but if SE doesn't stop this & I end up being belittled by an egotistical buffoon I will leave this game, as I'm sure others will.

[coco1851]

But is not faul of those who sell the clear. The fault is for those who buy them and also those who OBLIGUE people to have clears to join PF. No one will sell a run if no one is interested.

What world do you live in? Yes it is the sellers fault to. They made the nub. Although no one is referencing what I'm about to say this is an example: so if your an accomplice to murder you don't get in trouble for it? If you buy alcohol for a minor you don't get in trouble? In actuality they both are at fault!

[WinterLuna]

I'll probably get bashed for this but it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. I absolutely hate when people buy or sell clears. I've always had the mindset of only wanting to complete things by my own hand. I don't even buy things in other games such as extra coins because I see it as 'cheating.'

I just don't see the point in playing a game if you're going to get someone else to do it for you. It's not like they're playing the game for other aspects like role play or they wouldn't be paying someone to complete a fight for them. Them wanting to see the story line is also a poor excuse. Go on YouTube. For things such as achievements and minions and quest rewards and glamours? You don't deserve them if you paid someone to carry you.

Again, just my opinion.

[LunaFaye]

This will end badly if it continues. No need to worry about whether or not a person earned it you will immediately be able to tell simply because power leveled nubs do not get good they simply get strung along, some will even be in here crying nerf because they never learned anything. Why will this end badly? Because before you know it there will be a lot of players that don't know up from down in end game content, people will want more players in fc & they'll use it to their advantage, will diminish the community because those that are willing to learn not pay their way will be treated unfairly (I have 3 experiences that describes this),egos will go up: I can clear this, can you? Take this as you want but if SE doesn't stop this & I end up being belittled by an egotistical buffoon I will leave this game, as I'm sure others will.

runs of raid or primal content has been sold since the beginning of 2.x. SE doesn't care and nor should other players. If someone likes to buy a clear of something, I am not the one stopping that person. Gives me and my friends the possibility to buy 10 houses before another patch hits, and makes that content irrelevant. Enjoy other games since apparently you want to leave since SE is not doing what you want

[WinterLuna]

But is not faul of those who sell the clear.

Of course it's their fault. Supply and demand.

[MeiUshu]

What world do you live in? Yes it is the sellers fault to. They made the nub. Although no one is referencing what I'm about to say this is an example: so if your an accomplice to murder you don't get in trouble for it? If you buy alcohol for a minor you don't get in trouble? In actuality they both are at fault!

actually if I Buy alcohol for a minor I would get in trouble.....yes indeed jailed for it even ....BUT nobody forces me to buy it, so no buyers no suppliers..so let me enlight you a bit with my next post.

you clearly miss a point or dont know it. Market works this way...supply and demand. As long as there is demand there is supply. The cost of the supply dépends on how many demands and how many supplier there are (this to make it simple).

Market law makes it so that as long as there is demand, supply will be there. Remove the demand and the supply will go.

this is just like our RL lives works.

In this case, some players found a niche (and yes is called that way) where they identified a need and they simply put out a supply to cover that need. Many players never would do any content or some of the content if it wasnt for those sellers, because whether you want to believe it or not, some players without those sellers would never achieve anything as there arent anybody doing any content especially old content. Even new, most dont want to take newby along. When you wait 8h for a EX primal, you go to bed and get up 8h later and you are still queueing you can understand why some would pay for experimenting at least just once something that shouldnt require the use of run sellers but unfortunately there is this demand.

If you want to eradicate this, start by doing something to help out those that require help, queue regularly in DF for ex primals to eventually pair up with those that want to try and couldnt, run stuff sync rather then unsync and maybe JUST maybe you might remove the supply since the demand would be inexisting

But whether you want it or not, the fault is the origin on the demand side not the supply. Try to think a bit before you shout out stuff that you obviously miss the basic grasp.

On a side note, you can bypass the 1000 words limit by editing your post

[Terribad]

In spirit of what? The game? Or games in general?

This entire game is basically a carry. Too hard? Don't worry it'll be nerfed in a week. Don't want to work for something? Or deal with competition? Don't worry here's everything handed to you.

To me this game isn't in the spirit of games. =/

[Aryalandi]

A friend of mine managed to hit his gil cap on 3~ different characters by selling clears, truth be told it is no more or less wrong than a craft based class selling their things, or someone desynthing items for demateria, or selling dungeon/treasure hunting loot, or selling items you farm from killing monsters. You are offering your skills for a fee just like all of those people do, it is something that everyone can do, it gives no unfair advantages as everyone can do it, and really all you are doing is extending the services of your character from Npc's to other players.

As long as you aren't being pushy about it and as long as you aren't mean or rip off people paying you it is perfectly fine to do. It would be more generous to simply help people out yeah, but again its a service that is in demand and there will always be a market for it.

I had to consider how i felt about it for awhile aswell, it was a bit on the morally ambiguous side to me as I had never really considered it before, but really in an economy that is full of people always trying to outsell everyone even if it means frequently crashing the market extending your combat skills from helping Npc's for a price to helping everyone for a price is also possibly the most stable source of high income in Eorzea.

Take for example this:
You are a leathercrafter selling demateria by crafting and desynthing an item over and over again, the market is stable until the moment you sell your item for the same price as everyone else, suddenly the return for your spent gil decreases, and keeps decreasing until what was once profitable is now worthless as more people lower their own prices. Soon your skill is rendered obsolete.

That is not something that happens when run selling, people need it and few enough do it that they do not need to compete with one another. I would admittedly do it if I wasn't afraid of dungeons, it does not mean that you still can't help someone for free if they need it.

[Thayos]

I've never bought a clear and never will, but...

For a true MMORPG, I think it's totally within the spirit of the game.

To me, the sign of a healthy MMORPG is the existence of player-created/influenced systems within the game. Developers facilitate some of this with auction house systems and whatnot. However, other systems such as organized linkshells for specific content, players that sell runs, RP groups, etc., show that the game offers enough freedom that players can essentially "live" while playing.

All that said... any player who seriously thinks he needs to buy a clear really just needs a better FC.