Selling clears maybe within the rules of the game - but is it within the spirit?

[MeiUshu]

Again i'll ask: Whats the difference between paying someone to carry you which you have a problem with and being carried by your friends/FC which you dont have a problem with?

Your question is easely answered : none

the point of Marxam though is totally another.

As for OP question, is it in the right spirit ? that dépends whom you ask. Those that sell those runs will tell you yes..afterall they make themselves available to take others through content for a price, is up to people to accept this or not, so those who accept think is totally ok and those who dont think is not ok but in the end, those that accepted are wel ahead those that didnt accept so really spirit, morality and the like are words that will be adapted depending who pronounces them

[Kitano123]

A discussion took place on my server yesterday re selling clears - started by someone offering them in general chat.
[snip]
After watching the discussion unfold on chat I was left with this: The next time I see someone with a nice mount, title, gear etc
- I'd wonder did they play well for this or just buy it through clear selling groups?

Each to his own I guess - thoughts?

I'd imagine theirs more people being carried by their friends/FC than buying clears. Other than gil changing hands how is that any different? Mercenaries for hire is also a common theme in FF games so in that respect i'd say it was perfectly within the spirit of the game.

There is also the argument about undermining the accomplishments of the people who actually worked hard for it when others could just pay for it. Personally I do not care for the type of people who hold being a first timer against someone so do not mind the fact their agenda of exclusion is undermined by clear buyers

Having cleared the fight is the only metric we have for judging whether someone is good enough before you see them in action. If you had you're way farm partys wouldn't exist as no ones going to join a farm group that has multiple first timers in it.

I wasn't a big mmo player before this game so I was surprised that players selling themselves is a thing. Somehow I just imagined an idealised community where people gave up their time to help others without asking for payment. I'm not a fan of it, but it doesn't break the game if that's how people like to play it. The only thing that upsets me is people breaking the game with third-party tools to get an unfair advantage of any kind.

People who sell runs also help their friends/fc mates for free as well, it isn't an either/or situation. A community is something you have to work to be a part off, you shouldn't expect free hand outs.

[CookieMonsta]

I find the most common things ppl buy carries for are Ex Primals and usually turn 1 or 2 of Alex Savage. You stick out like a sore thumb and are asking to be blacklisted if you claim to clear the 2nd last or final turns of Savage because most of the legitimately cleared people know each other. If clients just want a one off clear, most of the raiding community doesn't really care (aside from the internal chuckles) but if these same people then try to join statics and such, it matters a great deal.

[Darkshade]

yeah we need those clear sales money to buy
oh wait
almost nothing

if there was actually stuff worth buying it might be a different story

[Tint]

selling clears is one of the bigger things that keep the RMT alive. where do you think got most of the people who buy clears their money? sure, there are some rich crafters, but most people will have bought the gil, like they bought the kill...

and because the kill sellers are feeding the RMT i am against the whole kill selling story.

[Kitano123]

selling clears is one of the bigger things that keep the RMT alive. where do you think got most of the people who buy clears their money? sure, there are some rich crafters, but most people will have bought the gil, like they bought the kill...

and because the kill sellers are feeding the RMT i am against the whole kill selling story.

What about expensive crafted items/minions? Should we stop people trading gil or sending messages to each other? Don't they feed RMT as well?

[Zojha]

What about expensive crafted items/minions? Should we stop people trading gil or sending messages to each other? Don't they feed RMT as well?

If the argument was valid: Yes, they would. Anything that requires more money than the average DoW/DoM can afford would, because it all creates a 'need' for gil.

Personally, I'm fairly indifferent about clear buying because I never considered a clear something special or worth buying. As such, I don't find it worth "protecting" either. More power to the people who can clear with a dead weight I guess.

[LalafellDown]

selling clears is one of the bigger things that keep the RMT alive. where do you think got most of the people who buy clears their money? sure, there are some rich crafters, but most people will have bought the gil, like they bought the kill...

and because the kill sellers are feeding the RMT i am against the whole kill selling story.

yep, I find it funny how people bought T9 and T13 clears for millions and now anyone can clear it unsync with 4 or more people.

[Highwilds]

People sell, and people buy. It's not limited to just crafted items or craft materials. Sure it "degrades" the achievements from those who have won such without paying for it, but that's life. If someone questions your HW Primal mount and how you've gotten it, it's their problem, not yours. :|

[Kallera]

I despise clearsellers. and I think it is against the spirit of the game to sell clears. but they are also a product of the endgame environment, from the design of boss fights to the community reaction to them.

usually when they are current, fights of the ex trial variety tend to be very strict, with OHKO attacks, where a downed player will usually be enough to make the attempt hopeless, and leave players either running for the pits or waiting for the mob to just get it over with(must be a hell of a sight from a npc perspective!).

players that rush for a clear often do so because the state of clearing causes a brain drain among the community, people that clear only want to party with people that clear, because people that have not cleared will result in no rewards. and the fights are mechanically complex enough that explanations in game are difficult, nigh impossible if you don't have macros.

So players do not try, they tell others to youtube it, and bang their heads against it until they either clear and join the farm parties(where it is assumed there are more quality players all the time) ask their fc or static for help, or stop trying to.

If a person does not have these connections or lack the player skill, they are often left behind, and their efforts frowned upon as getting "carried". Think about it, the very notion of helping the unskilled clear content has a derogatory name in this genre. They aren't attractive to the parties because they cannot clear, and they will be constantly paired up with those that cannot clear. They are told to stop playing, gitgud, watch it on youtube, or join a static(which again, have their own criteria, revolving around clears, whether the static is willing or even capable of improving the player is toss up).

People see this impasse, and make a buck on it.

for a bunch and a half of gil you too can get 7 people to be the bros that can clear content and help out. you can buy the end of the adventure, you can pay for the win.

And yes people may frown upon it, they may speak ill of your clear or that you didn't earn it.

But they weren't there when you needed it, so why should they matter now? Next patch and their vaunted prizes will be a thing of the past, and they wouldn't have helped you then either.

Its a bad situation, but there's little if any incentive to improve on it. people are trying to keep their own progression alive as it is, to not get into that situation.