About a Pre-HW Interview

[Enkidoh]

The trouble is, the way the game's lore has been written practically preempts having male miqo'te of either clan as having major staring roles in the storyline - they're stated as being usually independently minded, transient and idle, if not downright lazy (this is why the ACN Guildmaster keeps going AWOL, wanderlust is in his blood).

Male Sunseekers especially are regarded as usually only being interested in trying to gain breeding rights with the women of their tribe (to become the nuhn), and male Moonkeepers are worse, taking a leaf out of their mithra cousins' book from FFXI where they're not even allowed out of the house and basically become househusbands for their family (this is why the only male Moonkeeper npcs you see are usually bandits who have violated the usual gender role for their kind and are acting independently). In fact, this was used as the reason why male miqo'te were not playable in version 1.0 - because there was so few of them and they lived independent, sedentary lifestyles.

So sadly I don't see this improving at all - the game's story basically prevents male miqo'te from being in a starring role in the storyline, period.

[Vexander]

The trouble is, the way the game's lore has been written practically preempts having male miqo'te of either clan as having major staring roles in the storyline - they're stated as being usually independently minded, transient and idle, if not downright lazy (this is why the ACN Guildmaster keeps going AWOL, wanderlust is in his blood).

Male Sunseekers especially are regarded as usually only being interested in trying to gain breeding rights with the women of their tribe (to become the nuhn), and male Moonkeepers are worse, taking a leaf out of their mithra cousins' book from FFXI where they're not even allowed out of the house and basically become househusbands for their family (this is why the only male Moonkeeper npcs you see are usually bandits who have violated the usual gender role for their kind and are acting independently). In fact, this was used as the reason why male miqo'te were not playable in version 1.0 - because there was so few of them and they lived independent, sedentary lifestyles.

This isn't the case at all though. The Postmoogle quests reveal that Male Moonkeepers aren't -allowed- to stay with their families. They're only allowed to return, briefly, -with gifts-, once in a GREAT while. Years. The family is the domain of the females, the males aren't allowed any say in it.


That said, exploring that cultural abuse of the male gender would make an interesting story to revolve around a character. Both Sunseeker and Moonkeeper cultures promote it, with Sunseekers being driven from a young age to fight one another to become Nuhn, and Moonkeepers not even getting a name.

[Mysterysword]

That said, exploring that cultural abuse of the male gender would make an interesting story to revolve around a character. Both Sunseeker and Moonkeeper cultures promote it, with Sunseekers being driven from a young age to fight one another to become Nuhn, and Moonkeepers not even getting a name.

I find it darkly amusing that despite having cultural traditions that seem abusive on paper, most Miqo'te male NPCs we see don't seem to be personally bothered by, or even pay that much attention to, them. We have the two tias in the U tribe, who aren't actually physically fighting, and their quests revolve around helping them gain footing with more subtle means, the ACN guildmaster speaks for himself when you get to meet him, and as for the Keeper men, the single Keeper male NPC I can recall meeting off the top of my head (a pre-HW study of all the NPCs in Eorzea mentions there is one other Keeper male, but I don't remember seeing him), is rather more concerned with things other than gender inequality in his race, when you interact with him.

Zhai'a Nelhah is a bit of a strange case, though, in that his entire personality and character seems wholly divorced from Miqo'te culture, so much so that I didn't even realise he was actually a Keeper until I finished all those quests. In fact, no character ever mentions his race that I can think of, and his role in the storyline he appeared in, could easily have been filled by a character of any other race.

I'm not entirely sure if this is an example of the Token Black Guy trope, just with male Keepers, or if it's an example to show that male Keepers as a whole don't really care that much about their traditions, with other things to occupy their time. We don't know much about Zhai'a's background, of course, but presumably he's a naturalised Gridanian, living in the city, and so perhaps he's the exception that pays more attention to Gridanian customs and traditions, rather than Keeper traditions.

[Vexander]

I find it darkly amusing that despite having cultural traditions that seem abusive on paper, most Miqo'te male NPCs we see don't seem to be personally bothered by, or even pay that much attention to, them. We have the two tias in the U tribe, who aren't actually physically fighting, and their quests revolve around helping them gain footing with more subtle means, the ACN guildmaster speaks for himself when you get to meet him, and as for the Keeper men, the single Keeper male NPC I can recall meeting off the top of my head (a pre-HW study of all the NPCs in Eorzea mentions there is one other Keeper male, but I don't remember seeing him), is rather more concerned with things other than gender inequality in his race, when you interact with him.

Zhai'a Nelhah is a bit of a strange case, though, in that his entire personality and character seems wholly divorced from Miqo'te culture, so much so that I didn't even realise he was actually a Keeper until I finished all those quests. In fact, no character ever mentions his race that I can think of, and his role in the storyline he appeared in, could easily have been filled by a character of any other race.

I'm not entirely sure if this is an example of the Token Black Guy trope, just with male Keepers, or if it's an example to show that male Keepers as a whole don't really care that much about their traditions, with other things to occupy their time. We don't know much about Zhai'a's background, of course, but presumably he's a naturalised Gridanian, living in the city, and so perhaps he's the exception that pays more attention to Gridanian customs and traditions, rather than Keeper traditions.

This is why I'd like to see a new scion, a Sharlayan Moonkeeper Male, being the one to explore it. Sharlayan doesn't seem to be homogeneous when it comes to culture and enforcing it (Y'shtola still has a traditional Sunseeker name, even if we never learn her father's name), but it definitely seems to instill an unbiased viewpoint when it comes to observing other cultures and nations. I think a Sharlayan Moonkeeper Male would be able to see this, whereas Eorzean male Miqo'te are simply too institutionalized by their own cultures. When viewed by a Sharlayan scholarly perspective, these cultures would no doubt be seen as a method of controlling the minority of the race's gender for the purpose of procreation, a kind of reversal of our own Earth history between the genders of males and females.

Yeah, other male Miqo'te in Eorzea would probably dismiss the character as eccentric, thinking they've got the good life, but that kind of adds to the tragic side of exploring the differences in gender for the race.

[Mysterysword]

When viewed by a Sharlayan scholarly perspective, these cultures would no doubt be seen as a method of controlling the minority of the race's gender for the purpose of procreation, a kind of reversal of our own Earth history between the genders of males and females.

The problem is that Eorzean culture and values, as a whole, are very different from our own values. It's an integral part of the world these characters inhabit, and I seriously don't want to see some awkward attempt at political correctness shoehorned into the plot. I've seen way too many stories where the creator's social and political bias wound up ruining the story for me, and I don't want to see FF XIV's story ruined by the same thing.

This is why I'm actually enjoying the portrayal of Miqo'te culture the way it has been done so far: we on the other side of the screen, raised with a totally different set of cultures and traditions may see it as alien and oppressive, but the Miqo'te themselves don't exactly resent their roles, if they even really care about them in the first place. I would be fine if FF XIV chooses not to explore this question; in fact, I don't want it to.

If, and only if, bringing up the topic of gender politics could be done in an unbiased, objective manner, I would be fine with that. The problem with issues like these is that people bring their bias into it all the time, and ultimately I've grown very tired of seeing such discussions about it, especially when they lead nowhere.

[Vexander]

The problem is that Eorzean culture and values, as a whole, are very different from our own values. It's an integral part of the world these characters inhabit, and I seriously don't want to see some awkward attempt at political correctness shoehorned into the plot. I've seen way too many stories where the creator's social and political bias wound up ruining the story for me, and I don't want to see FF XIV's story ruined by the same thing.

This is why I'm actually enjoying the portrayal of Miqo'te culture the way it has been done so far: we on the other side of the screen, raised with a totally different set of cultures and traditions may see it as alien and oppressive, but the Miqo'te themselves don't exactly resent their roles, if they even really care about them in the first place. I would be fine if FF XIV chooses not to explore this question; in fact, I don't want it to.

If, and only if, bringing up the topic of gender politics could be done in an unbiased, objective manner, I would be fine with that. The problem with issues like these is that people bring their bias into it all the time, and ultimately I've grown very tired of seeing such discussions about it, especially when they lead nowhere.

There's no reason for gender politics to come into it at all though. Like I said, it's a character who lets the players explore that aspect of the lore, an opinionated character to be sure, but its not as though they're coming to Eorzea to push a political plot and change the culture/nations and what have you. It doesn't need to be blatant and in your face, referenced in every sentence of dialogue. It can be as simple as extra text in the Rising Stones after MSQ patches.