3.4 speculation

[Frederick22]

Garlemald, by comparison, has been stated to allow conquered regions to continue to embrace their own culture with the exception of religion (something which has proven to lead to chaos in this setting anyway) so one does have to wonder if much of the tales of Garlemald's cruelty are exaggerated. Yes, there's bad apples - but that applies to every region. The whole 'Might Makes Right' approach played out with the British and Roman Empires in our own world and neither Empire was 'evil' or completely without redeeming qualities. Both have also left a long lasting impact upon the cultures of the lands they conquered throughout history - and even some of those that they didn't conquer. Garlemald is likely to be in a similar scenario from what we know.

One second so you are saing that Ala mhigans are the bad ones while Garlemand is doing this for the righteous way? hahahaha...no

Lets agreed just for a second on this. Eorzea is not a saint either. We had a corrupt city where gil is power, and poor is treated like bugs. A place full of pirates where bandalism has no stop and racial problems agaisnt beast tribes. A place full of treehuggers with xephofopic problems agaisnt outcasts, another place with a very dark and emdieval religion that oblitares anyone that express "libery of speech" and lied about the origin of a war, anf then a place full of fighters that had a mad king.

Whats the difference here?

That at least Eorzea admited this problems, and there is good ppl tring their best to solve it and make a better way. Ishgard couldnt be a better example.
Whats with Ala Mhigo? well we know good Ala mhigas that sure will take a bigger role on the coming expansion.


Garlemand has nothing on this, they conquer for pleasure and subjugate anyone, like any militari dictatorship does They are right on the way to become the next allagans and provoke their same mistakes.
So far we have meet no one taht admit this and wants to solve it.

There to two people so far have defected.

You need to understand this Theodric, well you can say whatever you like of garlemand culture or their people. But admit that their actual goverment is not good at all. A militar dictatorship will ALWAYS be marked as evil.

[Cilia]

Garlemald... has been stated to allow conquered regions to continue to embrace their own culture with the exception of religion (something which has proven to lead to chaos in this setting anyway) so one does have to wonder if much of the tales of Garlemald's cruelty are exaggerated. Yes, there's bad apples - but that applies to every region. The whole 'Might Makes Right' approach played out with the British and Roman Empires in our own world and neither Empire was 'evil' or completely without redeeming qualities. Both have also left a long lasting impact upon the cultures of the lands they conquered throughout history - and even some of those that they didn't conquer. Garlemald is likely to be in a similar scenario from what we know.

No, no, you've got a point. They only take away religious freedom. Well, that and they don't offer full citizenship without 20 years of military service, will forcefully conscript conquered peoples into said military, and then remorselessly kill them for slight infractions. There's also Varis' intent to genocide the beast tribes instead of trying to find a diplomatic or at least peaceable solution to the Primal issue. You're right, though - the tales of their cruelty are widely exaggerated.

/sarcasm

Anyway, while neither the Roman nor British Empires were strictly "evil" or without merit, they still weren't liked by the majority of the populace (esp. in conquered / claimed / annexed / colonial territories) because they were oppressive just as Garlemald is. People don't like being oppressed. Given Ala Mhigo has been under Garlean rule for... what, 25 years? Even if we do manage to liberate it I wouldn't expect it to go back to Ala Mhigan culture right away or... ever fully, possibly.

[Frederick22]

Anyway, while neither the Roman nor British Empires were strictly "evil" or without merit, they still weren't liked by the majority of the populace (esp. in conquered / claimed / annexed / colonial territories) because they were oppressive just as Garlemald is. People don't like being oppressed. Given Ala Mhigo has been under Garlean rule for... what, 25 years? Even if we do manage to liberate it I wouldn't expect it to go back to Ala Mhigan culture right away or... ever fully, possibly.

While I agree with you with it Cilia I'm not sore sure with the last parts.


I know, it could happen anything, and with whatever result I will okay with. But if its taken on consideration a similar case that happen on reality is the URRS.

A lot of contries formed part ( some by force ) of the URRS. For a long time this countries wanted freedom, and most of them did have it until the fall of URRS.
How much this countries were subjugate for how much, 30 years? These countried did not forget their old costumes before they were controled by the russians and once then were free, they pretty much did not retake it ?
Back to point with Ala Mhigo, if they are free. I can see the posibility that everyone will return to their culture and forget anything taht the Garleans would have tried to change. I dont say that all will return of how things were, but they will still keep their main costumes. For example is not out of the posibility that they look for a new king.

[Slatersev]

There's a fine lie between wanting some moral grayness in the story and blatant White Washing of Garlemald and Victim Blaming of well, all there victims. And I feel like Theo falls into the later all the time.

Like, how else can you possibly imply more then once that maybe Ala Mihgo deserved to be subjugated because of the Autumn War, even though there two completely different generations 75 years apart? And Garlemald has the least right of anyone to attack them.

Gaius was there version of a progressive and he was cool with genocide as long as didn't involve crashing a moon into the planet.

Pointing out 20 years of Military Service can get you basic citizenship doesn't work either because it's not the populaces choice if they get conscripted, it's slavery. And even if you rise high like Rhitahtyn there is still the fear your racist soliders will just abandon you to die which is what Gaius' mind IMMEDIATELY jumped to after he died.

Nazi comparisons can be trite, but Garlemald deserves it, there not being based off Archades, there being based off the Gestahl Empire, which literally used the Nazi salute.

[PArcher]

Its also good to point out the Domans were unhappy enough with their conquest to revolt...and then face genocide.

There is no justification for that from an empire that is "good". None at all. And Othard isn't a recent conquest either.

[Theodric]

Its also good to point out the Domans were unhappy enough with their conquest to revolt...and then face genocide.

There is no justification for that from an empire that is "good". None at all. And Othard isn't a recent conquest either.

It's perfectly possible that they killed many innocent Garleans and were punished severely as a result. We do not know the full circumstances surrounding the revolt in question; just a biased account from one side in particular. We also know - from Livia's account - that Garleans themselves are no stranger to the horrors of war and strife. She was an orphan after all (despite being a Pureblood) so it would be interesting to learn the circumstances surrounding that.

[Tracewood]

So I just managed to beat all of Coil for the first time (played Beta, quit, came back before HW) and wonder if the dev team will think up some special dialogue for our reunion with Alisaie.

If you never touched coil, she'd probably be indifferent otherwise she'd be overjoyed to see your player character again. The game has been good with the small details so I guess we'll see what happens. Speaking of coil, the story was pretty amazing once you get to the second and final coils. Even had voice acting at the end which took me by surprise. I hope Alexander's finale will be interesting, be kind of sad that one of the strongest primals is left to a side story.

I would like to see small hints of new jobs from characters, either new or old. Yugiri was a strong hint at the Ninja/Rouge job/class with her dialogue with Thancred. People are half expecting Iroha (from the seasonal event) to come back as a Samurai since the end CS implies that she is given purpose and is "stuck" here, and perhaps... and this is stretching Alisaie might have a new type of job she's been toiling with since we last saw her but it would go against her summoner roots. She'd make a fantastic Red Mage, taking up a floret in one hand, and a grimore on the off hand. Fans might take issue with a grimore instead of a sheild, but who knows how this will play out.

[PArcher]

It's perfectly possible that they killed many innocent Garleans and were punished severely as a result. We do not know the full circumstances surrounding the revolt in question; just a biased account from one side in particular. We also know - from Livia's account - that Garleans themselves are no stranger to the horrors of war and strife. She was an orphan after all (despite being a Pureblood) so it would be interesting to learn the circumstances surrounding that.

Responding to a revolt with genocide is not justifiable. Period. Slaughtering non-combatants, the sick, elderly, women, children. And then razing the country to the ground, (almost) completely wiping it from the map...yeah. The Garleans are definitely angels. The ninja quests touch on this a good deal as well, from both sides.

The other point about this is the Domans were *not* OK with being under Garlean rule. Even after the years they were under it. Which points to the Garleans not being good stewards to their conquered.

[VargasVermillion]

People don't want a greyer light for Garlemald because some of us enjoy being in the antagonistic group, share similar ideals or whatever other possible reasons but just because it makes a more interesting story generally and makes sense, no political power in this world is created by 'evil' ideals from the main parties point of view, there is ALWAYS another motive and the whole 'conquering for pleasure' I doubt that's an actual reason as a whole. Also not many seem to remember Garlemald doesn't just wipe a countries culture slate, they preserve as much as they functionally can with their own society as mentioned in a lore panel.

Garlemald chose to have an emperor based on the bio for solus on the official site, so my best guess is when we do focus on Garlemald we are going to learn their history and what prompted them to go on the war path. We know very little about it's people or it's culture and history so all we can do is wait and see what SE has in store.

[Slatersev]

It's perfectly possible that they killed many innocent Garleans and were punished severely as a result. We do not know the full circumstances surrounding the revolt in question; just a biased account from one side in particular. We also know - from Livia's account - that Garleans themselves are no stranger to the horrors of war and strife. She was an orphan after all (despite being a Pureblood) so it would be interesting to learn the circumstances surrounding that.

See, this is what I mean, Garleans commit a genocide and your like..

"Maybe it's the Domans fault they were invaded, subjugated, brutalized and then murdered in mass"

Let's say your completely unfounded in anyway by the game theory innocent Garleans somehow were killed during the uprising, that still doesn't justify ANYTHING.

If a couple of American citizens were killed in Iraq by terrorists and we responded bu WIPING OUT THE MIDDLE EAST to the point all that's left of them could fit on a cargo ship we would be rightly seen as genocidal monsters.

I have know doubt will meet more sympathetic Garleans one day but there going to be what you hate Theo, there going to be like Cid and Lucia, (not blinded by patriotism fascists which is what most Garleans actually are) and help us reform it, not suddenly reveal "Oh hey guys Garleans are cool now there genocides were justified"