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Thread: 3.4 speculation

  1. #101
    Player Theodric's Avatar
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    Matthieu Desrosiers
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    Cerberus
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    Well, as always I'm going to have to disagree.

    Garlemald's actions aren't necessarily a sign of the place being completely rotten to the core. If anything they come across as well intentioned extremists - and we don't know enough about their motivations to have the full picture that includes their side of the story and motivations. If we take a look at real world history many countries sought to conquer their neighbours for various reasons and it wasn't as if they were completely rotten either. Yes, there's a lot of negativity associated with the British Empire and the Roman Empire but at the same time they had an immense influence across much of the world and culture that exists to this very day.

    When people first encountered the Dravanians they were brushed off as 'evil' and yet over time we came to see that their reasoning - whilst flawed - was fairly sound and driven by something far deeper than Nidhogg and his brood killing people for no reason at all. I predict that it will be much the same with Garlemald. Perhaps the nation itself was pushed around whilst it was still small and fought back when it gained power over magitek. Perhaps Garlemald has been manipulated by Ascians for quite some time - which seems pretty likely. Again, just speculation but we just don't know enough to judge them.
    (2)
    Last edited by Theodric; 07-16-2016 at 01:28 AM.

  2. 07-16-2016 01:54 AM

  3. #102
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
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    Trpimir Ratyasch
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    Lamia
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    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Garlemald's motivation is very simple - go forth and conquer. That's it.

    This mentality was brought up by Solus zos Galvus, the first emperor of Garlemald who starting ~50 years ago turned the country from a humble farming nation into the warlike magitek empire it is today. Their efforts to shackle Primals are on the surface noble, but deep down little more than a means to stop people from impeding their way with said Primals and make sure there's something left to rule when they're done. They are much more based on the Gestahlian Empire from VI than the Archadian Empire from XII... Which is no small part of what has me so concerned about what's going to happen on Azys Lla and with the Triad in regards to them... Hell, their magitek armors are perfect recreations of the ones from VI, alt. paint schemes notwithstanding.

    In many ways, Gaius van Baelsar embodied the best and worst aspects of the Empire. On the one hand he was meritocratic, sporting in combat, gave a fair chance to surrender, and was horrified when Lahabrea's forced casting of Ultima laid waste to the Praetorium. On the other... he still considered Eorzea his for the taking because he believed nobody could stop him and condemned all religion as a sham (even being a non-religious person I won't do the same; though I do find it somewhat odd Lucia suddenly found religion when she fell in love with Aymeric after a lifetime of atheism... but I digress).

    Of course, as I've become somewhat (in)famous for saying, this doesn't preclude the possibility of there being some good characters in the Empire - a Judge Drace or Gabranth, if you will. Still, there's no evidence of such a figure yet, and until then the only "good" Garleans we have are expatriates.
    (5)
    Last edited by Cilia; 07-16-2016 at 06:01 PM. Reason: Diction, van Baelsar

  4. #103
    Player
    Lauront's Avatar
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    Tristain Archambeau
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    Has the democracy bug spread to MMOs too now?
    (1)

  5. #104
    Player
    DrakkenX9's Avatar
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    Mera Firelyte
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morningstar1337 View Post
    Took a few second to look at those "Ark Angels" and I feel like that might be the case. Unfortunately I can only fin that they are a thing, that they consist of one member of each of that games races, and that they seem to be associated with negative emotions, so their lore in XI is lost on me.
    Your basically talking about the Crystal Warriors from Final Fantasy 11 Online
    (0)

  6. #105
    Player
    Kallera's Avatar
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    Etoile Kallera
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauront View Post
    Has the democracy bug spread to MMOs too now?
    I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking this.
    (2)

  7. #106
    Player
    Rocl's Avatar
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    Rocl Montaigne
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakkenX9 View Post
    Your basically talking about the Crystal Warriors from Final Fantasy 11 Online
    y-y-yes? That's exactly what she's talking about?? Pretty sure they're the same thing, non?
    (0)

  8. #107
    Player
    Hinoto-no-Ryuji's Avatar
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    Ryuji Hinoto
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    Tonberry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauront View Post
    Has the democracy bug spread to MMOs too now?
    What's the old saying? Democracy is the worst system of government, except for all the other ones? Something like that. Anyways, it's less pro-democracy (I think modern Ishgard is the only government that comes close), and more like the anti-imperialism and anti-fascism bug.

    Anyways, we've been over this a lot recently, and I tend to side with Cilia. Imperial Garlemald is bad news bears, has only ever been presented as bad news bears, and while we may get sympathetic characters within/under Garlemald in the future, I doubt that the current state is going to get their actions pardoned by the narrative anytime soon. Not with the way this game has portrayed Imperialism thus far, anyways (it's not like the Allagans are painted in the most sympathetic light either). I don't think that "bloody conquest for bloody conquest's sake = bad" is a controversial (or even really debatable) position for the game to take, though, and there's lots of ways the game can play with shades of grey even with that attitude, so it doesn't especially bug me.

    There are lots of reasons, many pointed out in this thread, that we would team up with Garlemald out of necessity down the road. There's also a lot of intrigue to be drawn from doing so with a bad news bears Garlemald (off the top of my head, a truce that involves pulling out of Ala Mhigo/Eorzea but none of their other territories creates tensions with the Doman refugees). We don't need to go Archadian with them, and I'm actually kind of interested to see where they're taken as a Gestahlian state in the narrative. As you've pointed out before, Theo, the game is generally good at not being black and white, and sympathetic villains aren't the only way to generate shades of grey.
    (2)

  9. #108
    Player Theodric's Avatar
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    Matthieu Desrosiers
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    There's conflicting sources, though, and we already know that what we see in-game is often told from a biased perspective. The Ala Mhigans, for example, often wail about the loss of their homeland and how they're tragic figures without much in the way of admittance that they themselves repeatedly screwed over Eorzea before the Garleans even entered the picture. Not only that but the Garleans were able to swoop in and take over the nation largely because of how much instability could be found within Ala Mhigo and the surrounding area. On top of that many Ala Mhigans have since turned to crime and even engaged in treachery against foreign monarchs and indulged in all manner of atrocities in the name of their fallen homeland.

    Garlemald, by comparison, has been stated to allow conquered regions to continue to embrace their own culture with the exception of religion (something which has proven to lead to chaos in this setting anyway) so one does have to wonder if much of the tales of Garlemald's cruelty are exaggerated. Yes, there's bad apples - but that applies to every region. The whole 'Might Makes Right' approach played out with the British and Roman Empires in our own world and neither Empire was 'evil' or completely without redeeming qualities. Both have also left a long lasting impact upon the cultures of the lands they conquered throughout history - and even some of those that they didn't conquer. Garlemald is likely to be in a similar scenario from what we know.
    (2)

  10. #109
    Player
    Lauront's Avatar
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    Tristain Archambeau
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji View Post
    What's the old saying?
    I don't adhere to that line of thinking, nor do I consider it true. It's just a platitude. Ishgard was more of a theocracy created out of necessity, so its reasons for abandoning that are to do with the fact that that is no longer needed. Had Thordan not maintained the myth of why they were fighting the dragons, it is likely morale would have depleted far sooner and the city would have fallen to the dragons, who were unprepared to forgive the Isghardians under any circumstances for the sins of their forefathers. At any rate, it would have been difficult to forge another monarchy out of it for those reasons.

    Anyways, we've been over this a lot recently,
    It's more that wholesale destruction of/war with the empire will involve more than just destroying its elite. So SE will have to find some redeeming qualities to it, and I am certain that won't be difficult. They managed to find some for Ul'dah (but as yet, none for Ala Mhigo.)
    (1)

  11. #110
    Player
    myahele's Avatar
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    Tonrak Totorak
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    Gilgamesh
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    I just hope we start focusing more on the other GCs/ City-states and their internal struggles, especially Ul'Dah. Surely, the change of Ishgardian government and peace with dragons would inspire Nanamo to abdicate and turn Ul'dah into a republic again, but maybe plan it better?

    It really is a shame that the truth behind the Sild'hih - Ul'dah war was revealed in the Hildibrand quest.
    (0)

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