Players Who Don't pull their weight.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

A player shouldn’t be penalized because they don’t play their character the way you want them to. It is just a game after all….

This excuse only stretches so far because we can take it to its logical extremes and the premise wouldn't change. For instance, should people be allowed to kick someone after they queued into a lvl 50 trial as a Marauder or Lancer? It is just a game after all.

See? At some point, you have to consider this "game" includes three or seven other people whose time will be effected. Therefore, you lose the argument of "I can do whatever I want." If that's what they prefer, then they should play a single player game like Skyrim or Fallout 4 where they can, indeed, do whatever they fancy.

[Singularity]

This excuse only stretches so far because we can take it to its logical extremes and the precise wouldn't change. For instance, should people be allowed to kick someone after they queued into a lvl 50 trial as a Marauder or Lancer? It is just a game after all.

See? At some point, you have to consider this "game" includes three or seven other people whose time will be effected. Therefore, you lose the argument of "I can do whatever I want." If that's what they prefer, then they should play a single player game like Skyrim or Fallout 4 where they can, indeed, do whatever they fancy.

this, basically.

When you say "don't tell me how to play", you are forgetting (or ignoring) that this is a co-operative team game, and that playstyles are often mutually exclusive (i.e. a party that is not all on the same page is likely to be unable to progress). When you insist on a specific playstyle that is different to that of the rest of your party, you are therefore, in effect, telling the rest of the group "how to play".

The tank that single-pulls small groups when they are overgeared and the healer and DPS are both capable and desirous of larger pulls, the healer that lets their fairy do all the work while they watch Youtube when the tank & DPS want to run fast, the DPS that refuses to AoE when the tank pulls 10+ mobs and the healer is fine with keeping them up, but only until their cooldowns run out. All of these hypothetical people are effectively saying "I don't want to go fast, so you all shouldn't".

Not that this only applies to going faster of course - the converse is also possible - consider the tank that pulls an entire room when the healer doesn't feel capable of keeping them up and the DPS don't know their rotations very well, or the DPS or healer that pulls extra mobs because they aren't happy with a pace that the rest of the group is fine with.

In both cases, one person is belligerently playing within their preferred style in a selfish effort to force the group to also conform to that style. If your playstyle is different from that of the majority of the group, then you should either adjust to match theirs, or leave.

When you say "don't tell me how to play", the implied follow-up is "instead let me tell you how to play".

[Kallera]

how are going to factor in the time it takes to clear something with the ilvl of the player? and why would you also include a generous time limit if you are going to disqualify players for taking even half of that time? What would have been a speed run back during release was a complaint filled time several months later, even though it ends with success. making getting into content more strict and leaving late comers out in the cold as the patch continues.

I am all for expecting people to play competently, but I am not for having the game force us to play to some abitrary standard without KO under threat of withholding drops or progression. Given the lack of socializing, at that point we might as well have NPCs as our party members.

[Kallera]

Again, Sproudlings are not included in this...

By not including them in this, you are in fact including them. What are people going to now think when a new player shows up in a duty?

[awbalto]

If every group which is not completly asleep can make certain dungeons in 20-30 Minutes, i can expect this amount of time to be "average".
If it takes the doubled amount, something is clearly wrong. If you get kicked for said reason, i think its justified. Even with crappy gear you can pull your least instead of pushing 1 button over and over again.

Average time of being 20-30 minutes i can agree with, but the point still stands don't expect to do it in 20-30 minutes but hope for it.
Let's compare it like this: People expect to clear Weeping city in 30-45 minutes depending on the speed bosses die and so on. We are up to Ozma and i fail a mechanic at 10% that wipes the raid, I get blamed for wasting 10 minutes of everybody's time. There lies the fault in that people EXPECT perfect play, minimum clear time and speed so fast it registers on a speeding camera. You should never expect people to do things perfectly, you can only hope for it

The game is indeed a team effort as some said above but i keep stating it do not expect people to be competent

[Ayer2015]

There will always be extremes.... I'm just of the mind set that if you want to play at maximum output run things with your friends.... expecting the FF14 community to carter to your play-style is unrealistic through DF.

[Ayer2015]

Its not that we want the players to play how we want it. It about that we want the players to play more how its intended by the game (and in the backstage the developers).

Every game has rules. Virtual and real life. When you play together with others (are all that people here so much egoist, to ignore that point entirely?), everyone expect the others will not mess them up. "Play how you want" in football, soccer or whatever else. What do you think will happen to you?

People that don't pull their weight in a virtual team game are the same as people that don't pull their weight in a real life team game: a burden to the other members of the team.

Then create your own teams with like minded people, not expect it from a public grouping tool.

[Saito_S]

Then create your own teams with like minded people, not expect it from a public grouping tool.

That makes zero sense as a response to what Karsten said. It's a "public grouping tool" that pulls from within the FFXIV playerbase, from within a group of people whose common trait is "currently playing FFXIV." And what Karsten and MANY other people in this thread are talking about are BASIC rules. Not "must max deeps at all times and complete the run in under 5 minutes!!!" but just the actual basics.

Think through what they said: ""Play how you want" in football, soccer or whatever else. What do you think will happen to you?" If making a pre-formed group can be analogous to getting your friends together to go play soccer, then using DF would be analogous to a soccer game organized by a third-party, where everyone shows up to play but they don't know each other. Even in the latter scenario, if someone just... stood around half the time, kicked the ball in the wrong direction (and when asked about this, clarified that it isn't because they are totally new to soccer or are suffering from some kind of impairment; they answer with "well whatever, not like we're PRO soccer players so who cares?"), etc...

Obviously, the scenario being "they didn't know each other before they came together to play soccer" wouldn't prevent that person from being called out, asked nicely to play properly, then asked more forcefully to play properly if he refuses, then kicked out.

You would have people standing next to him on our hypothetical soccer field, saying things that mirror almost word for word what people in this thread have said other than changing the wording to fit soccer rather than FFXIV. "Dude, no one is expecting you to be ready for the World Cup tomorrow or anything, but can you not just stand around and intentionally play terribly?"

FFXIV has basic rules just like soccer. "You CAN play however you want" is only a statement of fact. Of physical reality. You CAN walk out onto a soccer field and kick the ball the wrong way. You CAN step up to the plate in a baseball game and just stand there with the bat held in one hand, letting the pitcher strike you out effortlessly without swinging it. You CAN log into FFXIV, join a DF party, and spam heavy thrust over and over and not dodge AOEs cause you just can't be arsed to make any effort. No law of the universe exists that will physically prevent you from doing these things. That doesn't mean it's okay to do so, or that there won't be consequences for doing so.

Walking into DF and intentionally contributing next to nothing or actively making a run more difficult, simply because you're lazy and don't feel like playing to the game's basic standards, is no different and no better than doing the same in any activity played with other people, and shouldn't be defended, let alone encouraged.

[Tolmos]

In This Thread: A lot of players who expect PUGs to perform as well as static groups.

Here's the truth of the matter: this is an MMO. It involves many other people, of varying degrees of physical and mental ability, as well varying degrees of knowledge and experience as to how this game is played. I'm sorry that, for many of you, your ignorance of this fact makes you angry and causes you distress. That's a terrible thing and I do hope that one day you find a way to work past that.

If you are looking for a group that can consistently perform at the level you want or expect, you will need to put it together yourself. Duty finder is currently unable to vet out players based on their relative skill, so you are going to get a lottery of skilled vs unskilled, knowledgeable vs unknowlegable. And guess what? There is absolutely nothing you can do about it. There is nothing I can do about it. There are some things Square can do about it, but they probably won't just to stop the complaints.

The only person you have total control of in this world is yourself. If you are finding your circumstances to be so unacceptable, you have to change those circumstances yourself. Expecting everyone who does not play to your standards to just quit the game, or somehow magically get better, because it inconveniences you is not a very realistic goal.

So, now that you have ~66 pages worth of people to sort through and find those who agree with you, I recommend playing this game like its an actual online game with multiple other people in it and be SOCIAL; start making groups with them. PM them, ask them out on a date... don't really care how you do it. But do I strongly recommend you do it for your own enjoyment of the game.

Good luck building your static groups!

[Kallera]

Of I am failing a mechanic in a fight, or unable to perform my role in a fight, am I doing it intentionally or not? am I just unfamiliar with it, or am I trolling? Should the long time player be punished for not remembering the nuances of every fight in the game, or going on hiatus?

The problem with this, is that you have to define where it ends and hope it doesn't start killing legit parties. If it is somewhere south of "speedrun", You had better be satisfied with the minimum of that effort or else we are going to have this conversation all over again, with less people in game.