I guess it's time

[Braden]

And that question was?



No that is complexity.

My question 50 pages ago was who will buy a game 1,3,5 years from now, knowing that all 99 percent of the content is irrelevant.

Depth... lol you had a hard time with tp and str sets... no wonder this easy mode works for simple minds. You probably rolled str set with a dps ws with a different modifier. That explains it.

i do raid ty. Its not good.

You have no obligation. Its so much worse than XI, being an asshole doesn't hurt you at all.

[Velhart]

My question 50 pages ago was who will buy a game 1,3,5 years from now, knowing that all 99 percent of the content is irrelevant.

As much as now? People will still buy a game that is giving content on a regular basis. Every MMO rises and lowers in numbers constantly through the years. Games that been out for years like WoW, Aion, Terra, GW2 have been out for years and still getting players in. Roulettes, story, and glamour help keep previous content relevant to an extent. Sure hundreds of people are not going to go into content from two years ago, but they still hold relevance through them. FFXIV is also a game that likes to move forward, not milk the same piece of content for years.

Depth... lol you had a hard time with tp and str sets... no wonder this easy mode works for simple minds. You probably rolled str set with a dps ws with a different modifier. That explains it.

I had a hard time with sets? The only hard thing about switching between TP and STR sets were inventory management. Hit macro, use WS, hit macro to switch back. I was also a SAM, and Tachi: Yukikaze/Gekko/Kasha (the only real relevant WS's) were STR modified.

i do raid ty. Its not good.

Care to elaborate? Your Lodestone would make one think you may not be the type to raid. I could be wrong. Can you explain please why your personal experience with raiding in this game not considered favorable?

You have no obligation. Its so much worse than XI, being an asshole doesn't hurt you at all.

What?

[Ryel]

You have no obligation. Its so much worse than XI, being an asshole doesn't hurt you at all.

What?

I think they mean that with the lack of content that forces players to band together, network and create lasting connections and the nature of the DF there is very little accountability when it comes to player performance and attitude.

This game has created an environment where your reputation means much less than it did in older MMOs and the player attitudes have reflected this.

[Istaru]

I think they mean that with the lack of content that forces players to band together, network and create lasting connections and the nature of the DF there is very little accountability when it comes to player performance and attitude.

This game has created an environment where your reputation means much less than it did in older MMOs and the player attitudes have reflected this.

For some people, it is the bond of friendship that keeps them logging in and playing. This game really requires a voice server, discord, TS, whatever to have that social aspect while completing content. I think the anonymity of DF doesn't help the social aspect of this game.

[Kallera]

Roulettes, story, and glamour help keep previous content relevant to an extent. Sure hundreds of people are not going to go into content from two years ago, but they still hold relevance through them. FFXIV is also a game that likes to move forward, not milk the same piece of content for years.

Do you hear yourself talk? By "keeping the same content relevant" they are "milking the same content for years". Its the same thing, especially in regard to poetics. You don't believe me? What is relic and the "archmagus"/primal focus quests, if not ways to do this?

[Velhart]

First of all, relic. second, do you hear yourself talking? By "keeping the same content relevant" they are "milking the same content for years".

You know what I mean, no need to twist my words. If you actually need clarification, I was referring to content like Sky, Sea, and other content in FFXI. On that note, you actually bring up a good point with relics. Only reason for that is developers can't feel compelled to actually make interesting/original content for it, which is a major issue in itself. I am glad you brought up relic because it does prove something against what I said and another reason I think it is a flawed quest line.

I think they mean that with the lack of content that forces players to band together, network and create lasting connections and the nature of the DF there is very little accountability when it comes to player performance and attitude.

This game has created an environment where your reputation means much less than it did in older MMOs and the player attitudes have reflected this.

I get what you mean, but I don't think the DF is the issue here. SE just needs to make content for FC's to get together. Hopefully the revised Diadem could help contribute to that. I would like to see content that influences people to grow their FC's, but still make the content accessible to random groups. Currently there is no real reason to have a large FC. However, having a tool like DF to get content done is pretty essential. I would hate to be a new player sitting in PF, hoping someone would need Brayflox normal or people willing to help.

[RiceisNice]

FFXIV is also a game that likes to move forward, not milk the same piece of content for years.

I disagree with this. For the most part, ("new") content they've been designing feels like throw-aways with no plans for the future. LoV, Aquapolis, PvP, hunts, just to name a few. Beyond the obligatory "now it gives current tomestone and gear", something like hunts have been exactly the same since release, and a good amount of people (me included) have hated it since.

They've also gone to great lengths to milk the same concepts over and over. When was the last time you saw an open world mob that had an ability that needed to be interrupted or stunned? It's always frontal telegraph in the form of a cone, rectangle, circle, or nothing at all. Now apply that to every dungeon run (with the exception of sohr khai because those little fookers have an untelegraphed cleave on their auto attacks...), Diadem, and even Aquapolis (and I expect this to be the case for palace going by their interview) 2.x hunts are still a reliable (and generally much faster if you keep track of it) way of getting gear in current content in regards to seals and tomestones for unID items or dust, and for some unknown reason it also rewards 3.x hunting seals and esotarics! It was actually more efficient to do 2.x hunts than 3.x ones for your relic progression in 3.1!

They try to keep 2.x beast tribes relevant by making it reward trade ins for unID items and even IV materia now... mind you that this is solo content so it's not like you need to give people a reason to do it to make it more lively... never mind that they still kept some of the inherent problems with the beast tribes that were never addressed until 3.x (FATE respawns specifically).

FATEs themselves have been largely the same; they're only a means to gain exp. The only time it feels like it has consequence and an effect on the world or any sequential story is Churning Mists with the shadow dragons. No highbridge where your success influences the vendor's appearance for a minion, no dark devices, only sequences of randomly occurring events

[RobbieH]

FFXIV is also a game that likes to move forward, not milk the same piece of content for years.

We must be playing a different FFXIV then.

2.0:

- One end game Raid
- Daily Beast Tribes
- Weekly Tome Limit
- 24 man raid with weekly limit
- 24 man raid giving item to upgrade to current best ilvl
- Trials, all of them irrelevant except the first ones (good old days of Titan and Garuda HM come to mind)
- Hunts

3.0
- One end game Raid
- Daily Beast Tribes
- Weekly Tome Limit
- 24 man raid with weekly limit
- 24 man raid giving item to upgrade to current best ilvl
- Trials, all of them irrelevant except the first ones (good old days of Bismarck and Ravana come to mind)
- Hunts

not milk the same piece of content for years.

*cough*

[Fricca]

FFXIV is also a game that likes to move forward, not milk the same piece of content for years.

I'm honestly very happy for you if you truly feel this way.

I held back on replying to this thread, but I feel like saying something now..

Let me just describe why I loved this game back when I was new:

1. The system was fresh. First game I've ever played where I had to dodge and do mechanics at the same time as a healer.. as opposed to just mindlessly topping people/tanks off and providing buffs as most of the games I've played enforced. I actually had to completely erase the habit of always having people topped off-- because I realized that timing is everything in this game, you need to have a good set of priorities to play optimally.

2. Having my relic actually meant something. It meant that I was skilled enough to finish all of the primals back then.... and it didn't feel like a looooong painstaking, mind-numbing grind.. it was the complete opposite, it was a lot of fun!

3. Having my relic increased my chances of doing BCoB even though I was new and was still learning the game. Relics back then wasn't just "weapons for casuals that have a lot of time on their hands". (I'm sorry if this isn't the case for you, but for me and for some of the people I know, relics were reduced to that idea) It wasn't just the "convenient way" of getting a weapon that's strong enough, it actually mattered for raiding. These days I feel like they try to make it seem like we have a lot of content by making some of the primal weapons relevant/strongest at a given time (like ravana and seph weapons were) and then release the relic to make us grind again for it as an alternative to the final turn weapon in the current raid content....

This way SE made me feel that they were releasing content one at a time, each time offering a slightly higher ilvl reward, just to make us grind and say we have something to do.... as opposed to making it a necessary step to take in order to reach a greater reward (which was the relic back then).

4. Player interactions were a whole lot better. People were actually willing to teach and take you through instances/primals etc. Why? Because in the end you can get your relic and you would be a good candidate to raid with. What's the difference now? Its either you clear x primal once and pray to god your weapon drops, convince 7 other people to grind the same content with you (slim chance without a static), sit and wait for the relic to come out to get a good weapon, pray to god that a static will take you in with your current gear/weapon, or not raid at all.

5. People were actually driven by the story to clear current content. Everyone that I know would tell me Alex is so boring, Alex is bland, Alex is a piece of sh*t, etc... Personally, I have no problem with the turns themselves because everything is fun as a healer... But I understand where my friends are coming from. Back when we first saw Heavensfall on T9, we were so amazed and surprised-- it was something we haven't seen before. The stage turned dark and welcomed a new set of mechanics. Back on T13 everyone was happy they finished all turns and got to watch the ending. All the time we spent raiding felt very rewarding.

With the system we have right now, you get an idea of what's going to happen in Savage by clearing Normal Mode, plus you get to finish the story... For a lot of people that takes away the level of excitement they get after a long brawl with a boss in an instance because they know the reward that they'll be getting is just the gear, which will be replaced by the next update.

tl;dr: I feel like they've stripped away a lot the fun elements I loved and enjoyed in this game. Player interaction is getting lower and lower each update with the new materia melder and Normal Modes. Before, I would log in excited to meet new people and help them clear content that they need (not just some alternative to a harder content)... Now everything feels like it has to be done with a static because nobody interacts anymore. The game is not producing any new skilled players this way (unsyncing aside).

[Klongol]

Let me just describe why I loved this game back when I was new

Everything seems so great when it's new, right? When I first started playing EverQuest in 1999 I was whisked into a new world entirely. Learning my class was a challenge. Learning where to gear up, or how to get platinum (the in game currency) was fun. Exploring and trying new camps to earn experience was exhilarating. Meeting new people and striving for the same goals was amazing fun. Learning to fight large bosses and compete for the rights to their loot was a thrill and a half.

The thing is... that feeling eventually wore off. I still liked playing EQ, but that "Back then" feeling never returned. I've even tried to play on so-called progression servers to try and get that feeling back. The nostalgia rush comes, but the feeling never remains. It's gone. I've experienced it. The same experiences will not ever have that same feeling again

In short, to expect the same feelings as you did when you first started, and to hope to experience the same emotions in the act is foolish. They took a different route with the Relic this time, but even if they took the same route the feeling wouldn't be the same. It would be old news. It was all so fresh back then. Now, you're experienced. You know what to expect. You've been playing the game long enough to know your way through all the of the game's mechanics. The fact of the matter is that it's totally normal to have that happen. There's nothing wrong with the game becoming familiar. it's bound to happen no matter what game you play.

EQ's core game never changed. They made improvements (Alternate Advancement, Faster travel, added classes and zones, improved gear and stats, Higher levels) but the game itself was still the same: Get with 40 other people. Set up a healing rotation. Main tank tanks the boss, damage dealers DPS, healers top people off, defeat the boss. Group mechanics stayed the same too: Get 6 people (1 tank, 1 healer, 1 CC, 3 dps), find an area with a high population of mobs, sit there and kill the same mobs repeatedly for experience.

The issue with this entire thread is that those claiming "the boring same routine" is killing this game are asking for the devs to fundamentally change the ENTIRE GAME to suit their fancy. It's no going to happen. The core will always remain.. as it has in every other MMO before it (except 1.0). It would be foolish to change it AGAIN when they have a working model now. We can all hope for improvements, as EQ did over the years... But to hope for that same old "feeling" is an exercise in futility. That same feeling will likely never return.

Here's hoping the devs are working on some neat things to pique our interest in 4.0. in the mean time, I'm going to keep playing here in 3.x. I like logging in daily to do dungeons. I like the theme park this world is set in, and I enjoy the content they release on the regular.