A proposed solution for having players become better players.

[CheshirePuss]

So remind exactly why you have a problem with rewarding healers who DO DPS? Because if you have no problem I'm not sure why you're arguing on this thread.

I think it's just because healer's doing dps is a double edged sword in terms of views of opinion. In circumstances of dungeons involving capped ilvls, a tank losing hp rather slowly, or dps not meeting the expected damage for the mobs would encourage some aid from the healer as far as dps is concerned. But it's for the very same circumstance of dps's expecting to meet the quota that encourage just as much distaste for some people, when a healer focuses more on casting a damage skill rather than a heal skill in some circumstances.

Not all dungeon runs are the same, results always vary. But people will still have their opinions, usually more in particular to their own experiences as opposed to another who has potentially shared opposite of their results.

[Seoulstar]

Snip

The whole tank part was quite..a bad example. If a tank does that, then they're not doing their primary role. Which is tanking, which they have to maintain aggro. With that example, you're going as if a healer isn't doing their primary role and just saying "Well, he has full health now. I'm just going to jump around until his health reaches zero". The healer is not a DPS. It's called a healer for a reason. Their role is to keep the party alive. Nothing more, nothing less. DPSing is just a little extra. It is not mandatory. And it does not make them a bad player. But everyone has their own opinion..even when it's illogical.

[Tolmos]

Here is how I always saw it: a healer has 5 possible jobs in a run:

1) Keep your party alive
2) Do not stand in insta-death/high damage attack zones; do participate in party mechanics when needed
3) Do not overheal your tank and cause enmity issues for your group
BONUS) Do participate in undesigned party mechanics to assist group in wining faster (aka kiting mobs while dps downs boss)
BONUS) Deal damage to the enemies along with healing to assist group in winning faster

* If you can do #1 and #2, you are an acceptable healer. Good job, you can make it through at least 90% of the leveling queue without issue.

* If you can do #1, #2 and #3 you are a good healer. You can do pretty much all the content in the game, and people probably won't complain.

* If you can do all 3 AND the 2 bonuses? You are a GREAT healer, and the type that any group would be lucky to have. You are the kind of healer people actively seek out for their static groups that do weekly runs together.

[Archaell]

The whole tank part was quite..a bad example. If a tank does that, then they're not doing their primary role. Which is tanking, which they have to maintain aggro. With that example, you're going as if a healer isn't doing their primary role and just saying "Well, he has full health now. I'm just going to jump around until his health reaches zero". The healer is not a DPS. It's called a healer for a reason. Their role is to keep the party alive. Nothing more, nothing less. DPSing is just a little extra. It is not mandatory. And it does not make them a bad player. But everyone has their own opinion..even when it's illogical.

It was actually spot on example. The tank has to maintain Provoke +1 aggro to make the same contribution as the healer who is only healing. It's not tank's job to kill things, it is tank's job to tank things ftw.

Imagine that dps players and tanks would press the same amount of buttons as the healer who is only healing - 1 hour expert roulettes the new meta.

[WinterLuna]

I think it's just because healer's doing dps is a double edged sword in terms of views of opinion.

Oh of course, and I respect everyone's opinion, but the player I quoted simply had a 'I do whatever I want because I pay my sub and that's final' attitude which really isn't benefiting anyone and also isn't a valid argument for anything.

Healers who focus more on DPS than actually healing and let their party suffer because of this clearly IS a valid argument. However with the variables the OP mentioned to determine the bonus rewards, letting the party suffer will cost them, therefore this system isn't encouraging people to put DPSing over healing.

If people don't want to heal and DPS then nobody can force them, but they shouldn't be against a suggestion like this simply because they personally don't want to.

[Seoulstar]

It was actually spot on example. The tank has to maintain Provoke +1 aggro to make the same contribution as the healer who is only healing. It's not tank's job to kill things, it is tank's job to tank things ftw.

Imagine that dps players and tanks would press the same amount of buttons as the healer who is only healing - 1 hour expert roulettes the new meta.

And it's not the healers job to kill things. The healer's job is to keep the party alive through the entire dungeon. Not DPS. As I stated, the other comment is basically going as if a healer not DPSing is the equivalent of watching your party health reach to zero.

[Archaell]

And it's not the healers job to kill things. The healer's job is to keep the party alive through the entire dungeon. Not DPS. As I stated, the other comment is basically going as if a healer not DPSing is the equivalent of watching your party health reach to zero.

In this game it is also healer's job to kill things. Even the job quests teach you that - because the incoming damage is too low to keep you pressing the buttons every GCD without overhealing.

To allow healers to only heal we would need tank busters at least every 5 seconds.

[Seoulstar]

In this game it is also healer's job to kill things. Even the job quests teach you that - because the incoming damage is too low to keep you pressing the buttons every GCD without overhealing.

To allow healers to only heal we would need tank busters at least every 5 seconds.

Doesn't that mean it's also the tanks job to kill things? Or am I just misunderstanding something here.

[Archaell]

Doesn't that mean it's also the tanks job to kill things? Or am I just misunderstanding something here.

Exactly! It is everybody's job to kill things.

Dps have complex rotations because their main job is to kill things.

Tanks and Healers have simplified dps rotations, because they also have to tank and heal.

[mp-please]

Doesn't that mean it's also the tanks job to kill things? Or am I just misunderstanding something here.

Yes tanks should be swapping stance when the incoming damage allows it, dungeon wise, there is no point of staying in tanking stance once aggro has been established.