A proposed solution for having players become better players.

[Kerii]

If I wanted to RP as an Ice Mage and spam only Blizzard-type spells that would be ok? My sub I play how I want!

To be serious, you and others like you have no reason to be against this. It would not penalize you in any way.

You can be penalized, it's called getting vote kicked. Good luck arguing how refusing to cooperate in a dungeon for "role play reasons" isn't a difference in play style.

[Lambdafish]

Technically, yes. If I asked you why you were using only Blizzard and you replyed that it was because of RP, I'd just shake it off and move on with the run. Anyway, Ice-Mages are just scarecrows in this type of argument, they probably don't even exist in the DF.

I get your sentiment, but RP is not an excuse. If someone wanted to RP an ice mage, then they should form a party that is ok with that. By going into a DF dungeon and doing that you are putting more pressure on 3 other people who didn't sign up for that, as the job mechanics are not designed to allow for things like ice mages, and at the end of the day doing it is as entitled and ignorant as Mattelots attitude.

[Cakekizyy]

And don't forget the people who roll level 60's but NEVER do the job quests for the advanced classes (BRD, DRG, WHM) I've done some PFs where people would literally queue up as our healer, but as an Arcanist.... that's been happening as of late and there hasn't been a party I've joined where they would get kicked for not only not doing their role, but casting THM spells and no heals.

Last week it was an Archer - the group couldn't kick him fast enough, he was falling behind and getting rolled. He wasn't even following mechanics... kept dying. Got to the point where the healer (not me, I was an actual Bard) stopped raising him.

But hey, we pay the subscription, we can play how we want, right? Screw everyone else...

Thought arcanist can only queue as DPS.

[Zari]

Thought arcanist can only queue as DPS.

They can only queue as dps so that part at least was a huge lie

[Reinha]

1. DPS roles: Your bonus rating is calculated by the amount of DPS you deal. If the system were advanced enough to allow it, I'd also have it subtract a number factored by the amount of avoidable damage you take.

2. Tank roles: Your bonus rating is calculated by DPS combined with enmity and damage mitigation.

3. Healer roles: Your bonus rating is calculated by amount of actual health restored (ie, overhealing or spamming heal on max health characters wouldn't count) combined with DPS. As content becomes easier from being overgeared, you'll find your DPS contribution scaling a bit more than your healing contribution.

1. Your idea encourages dps players to not care about staying below the tank's enmity, to avoid using support abilities that reduce damage, to avoid resurrecting people and to AoE even if a single target should be focused in a pack. It encourages to not handle mechanics that would lower dps or cause damage taken. Lastly, this suggestion makes dps players vulnerable to tanks pulling targets out of AoE areas, tanks moving targets out of melee range, healers letting dps die and healers/dps knocking targets back.

2. Your idea causes disparity between tanks based on off-role potential which is not balanced (PLD has no spammable AoE dps, so they only get the threat component while others get dps+threat). It discourages PLD using Clemency on other people and directing damage taken from other people to themselves with their ability. Healers/dps can jynx a tank's dps/aggro by knocking mobs away, by kiting loose mobs instead of bringing them to the tank, by using enmity modifying abilities and by facepulling so aggro is all over.

3. Your idea causes disparity between different healer jobs based on off-role potential which is not balanced. It encourages AST players to give cards to themselves and discourages AST/SCH pre-shielding because of overheals. It discourages using damage mitigation abilities (Protect, bubbles, Virus, Disable, E4E, stuns) because they lower the amount needing healed. It encourages healers to spend MP at the end of a pull instead of letting the passive regeneration fill up HP bars. Team members playing well at early gear levels would make it hard to build up rating as a healer, because healer dps would not yet scale well.

[Teraluna]

Sounds like you might need to go to the Hall of the Novice and complete the healer training. They directly tell you to DPS if no one needs healing. And I don't mean to sound too harsh, but a system like this is designed for players like you.

Good job this 'system' has zero chance of getting introduced then, as it's a pile of self-aggrandizing garbage.

Lost in all of this is the aim of playing an mmo - any mmo. That is actually enjoyment.
If someone likes playing the game and their groups are clearing content, then it doesn't matter whether their dps v heal output conforms to your imaginary pass/fail quota.
If you don't want to come across players who's main focus is enjoying the game, rather than fulfilling your work-not-play spreadsheet figures - the answer is simple - organize your groups with like minded players.

People clear the content ok and have a good enjoyable run. Thanks are given, and each player turns to the next thing they'd like to do.
But not here - now they have a 'Was I really good enough' quota to pass/fail - rubbish. Of course they where ok. The group enjoyed the run and content was cleared.

Don't go back to the drawing board with this - put the cover on it. Find like minded players, start your own spreadsheet focused FC if there's enough of you, and leave the people who actually play the game for enjoyment away from this elitist grading waffle.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

Why should the personal enjoyment of one player supersede the remaining three? If a player purposely hinder their own ability through sheer stubbornness, people have a right to voice their complaints. This isn't the same as tanks who only pull in small groups because content is designed with that philosophy in mind. Ice Mages, lack of Healer DPS and etc do not fall under that category as you are given tools to do far more, yet are simply refusing to.

[Seoulstar]

Of course this was a thread about all classes. But somehow it turned into a insult any healer that doesn't DPS thread. You know, I'm growing really tired of seeing threads like this. Even though the healer is keeping the party alive. They're apparently "Bad" for not DPSing. I swear, the more I come to the NA forums. The more I wonder do people from other regions whine and dictate other roles as much as this one. If a healer doesn't want to DPS, so what? That doesn't make them a bad healer. You want people to do more? How about not insulting them like some child and actually try to be understanding? At first I was a healer that didn't want to DPS. But then some people just told me to maybe try to ease my way into it. Don't rush it, just have fun and see where it goes. And guess what? Now I DPS whenever possible. Why? Because I wasn't forced to, I wasn't ridiculed like so many of the people in this thread just seem to love doing.

[mp-please]

Even though the healer is keeping the party alive. They're apparently "Bad" for not DPSing.

Keeping the party alive isn't enough to make a healer good either, one can make a macro to mash cure I while they afk. Does that make them a good healer? Hell no. Yes you're keeping the party alive but you aren't playing the job as intended and neither you're helping the other members on your party.

I swear, the more I come to the NA forums. The more I wonder do people from other regions whine and dictate other roles as much as this one.

What part of NA has the lowest savage clear rate didn't you understood? Western players are too egocentric to think about the whole group rather than themselves.

How about not insulting them like some child and actually try to be understanding?

Personally i don't insult anyone or call out healers to dps (99% the times), i've went through so many bad healers, bad tanks and bad dps that i rather just save myself getting some white hairs and just stay quiet. Anyways to the point, what is there to understand when the tank is taking 200dmg/s with 20k hp while self healing here and there and the healer is mashing the hell of cure I or being completely afk while HoT/fairy handles the healing?

Then this encourages tanks not using a proper cooldown rotation, with healers mashing the hell out of cure why would anyone mitigate damage? Most tanks i know even refuse to use cooldowns just to spite healers who don't carry their weight. Either way, healers are casters. Unless you're being limited by the instance mp requirements, you should always be casting. It's unjustifiable to not being casting every 5 seconds, the sooner healer wannabes put that in their head, the sooner we'll have a better playerbase rather than call out "muh sub muh gameplay" like a lot do. The holy trinity makes each player important to clear a duty.

[Zojha]

Of course this was a thread about all classes. But somehow it turned into a insult any healer that doesn't DPS thread.

Because it's really the most obvious and common example of a bad player, so it's easy to point fingers.

I mean, nobody would even attempt to argue that a DPS that only puts a DoT on a mob and then hops around for the next 18 seconds is not a bad player - even though that's literally what only healing and not DPSing boils down to most of the time. And technically, that DPS is even doing his job correctly, because he is dealing damage and the mob would die to it - eventually. This is the level of play we're talking about.

The underlying principle here is:"Don't just stand around, make yourself useful." And the reason why healers tend to be singled out there is because no tank or DPS even questions this principle. No tank ever goes:"Well, I got aggro, I'll just stop hitting this mob and jump around until I no longer have." Neither do DPS - even bad DPS use their GCDs, just inefficiently. That is something healers do rather exclusively. And that's why bad player debates quickly gravitate towards them.