A proposed solution for having players become better players.

[Kosmos992k]

The idea that healers don't DPS is weird to me, but maybe that's because when I queue for something I always intend to give it my all. By that I mean, all of my attention and all of my effort. That's just how I am.

Why wouldn't I DPS when on a healer role instead of just standing around? Obviously if it's dangerous to do so for whatever reason I'd focus on healing. But, I mean, generally you'd want a run to go faster rather than slower, right? Also, you'd want to actually play the game, right? I wouldn't find a game fun if I just AFK'd and let my fairy heal a dungeon, or just stood around waiting for someone to take damage. I want to help my party succeed.

The problem is not whether or not Healers can fit some DPS into their rotation, the issue is the expectation of some players regarding the amount of damage that a healer should contribute. A lot of it comes down to said players second guessing healers abilities, and presuming to tell them to do more DPS or be called lazy and good for nothing. It's a stupid argument in the end because most healers will try to fit some DPS in, and it's not really up to some random other player to evaluate whether that is sufficient or not. Typically, players complaining would be better off watching their own numbers and dodging AoEs because I can tell you, DPS that stand in stupid because they want to maintain their DPS cause my damage as a healer to drop through the floor since I am spending additional time preventing others from hitting the floor.

Not to take this quote out of context, but the reverse also holds true;

Clearly, it always cuts both ways for sure.

[coco1851]

That is not an acceptable way to play. I don't care if it's their 15 dollars a month, it's not worth more than the 45 dollars of the rest of the group.

Oh I get what your saying but that's just the way it is in any mmo either you grin & bear it or you don't, it doesn't mean it would be fair for all parties involved to add special rewards because of skill level. I've had 'those' kinds of groups from time to time heck you wouldn't believe how many people use limit break to soon in lower dungeons, just last week the fiancé & I entered a dungeon he was tanking I was dps we came in said hi like we always do to be friendly, the other dps said hi as well the healer on the other hand literally sat down & didn't say a word at the entrance, we eventually voted to kick. It's was agitating, yes but we just went about our day we didn't expect more for the healers lack.

Honestly your story sounds to me like daddy handed controller over to child, or that it was a bought character which is against tos but people still do it, or he did that on purpose just to see who he could get a ruse out of & clearly it worked. I used to get beyond pissed at people, rage quit, discuss these types of players in forums, etc. but now I have learned to let it slide off, or laugh it off.

[Evumeimei]

The problem is not whether or not Healers can fit some DPS into their rotation, the issue is the expectation of some players regarding the amount of damage that a healer should contribute. A lot of it comes down to said players second guessing healers abilities, and presuming to tell them to do more DPS or be called lazy and good for nothing.

To be fair, I've never had anyone complain about healer DPS in anything I've ever done since I started playing this game (which is since close beta). Seems like it bothers a lot of people or, in some cases, there are unrealistic expectations.

Personally, as long as the healer is trying and/or the run is going smoothly, I'm happy (even if I groan internally whenever I see a healer standing around waiting for someone to take damage).

[MaikoRaines]

I don't DPS as a healer and I never toot my own horn.

As a healer, then let me toot mine. I notice I have DPS abilities. I am MORE than happy to use them. In between healing and keeping the damage consistent, I will switch to Cleric stance to throw a few stone 3's at enemies. When I need to switch out in a pinch, I use Assize and turn off cleric stance right away, carry on with heals, dots (allies and eneimes), monitor (opportunity?) sling more Stone 3's, mechanics, heals... win. Maybe it's just me... but as someone who heals quite consistently, I've been told my DPS is pretty consistent and my heals are awesome. Usually nets me a ton of commendations and, often than not, friends to invite me to more dungeons and raids.

Well, to be honest, we do have the right to play how we want.

Yep, and with crappy attitudes like that, we have the right to expel you from our parties. Healers aren't the staple of any team - a good team is the staple of any good team. Tank. DPS. Healer. At the end of the day, we ALL can do damage. Do you want to backseat heal and be a lazy, inconsiderate player, or do you wanna be boss mode and show everyone how a healer does?

Otherwise. Yeah. Go ahead with that "I pay to play how I want" mentality. Lets see how long that continues to work for you.

[Yurimi]

Yep, and with crappy attitudes like that, we have the right to expel you from our parties. Healers aren't the staple of any team - a good team is the staple of any good team. Tank. DPS. Healer. At the end of the day, we ALL can do damage. Do you want to backseat heal and be a lazy, inconsiderate player, or do you wanna be boss mode and show everyone how a healer does?

Otherwise. Yeah. Go ahead with that "I pay to play how I want" mentality. Lets see how long that continues to work for you.

I agree that a lack of team attitude can indeed be a hindrance, but a groups back does entirely rest on the healer. You can do almost any dungeon content (with a few exceptions) missing a dps or even a tank while a healer if that is missing you arent going much of anywhere. It can be a lot of pressure. In a group where I can trust the members (or at least the tank) I dont mind tossing some DPS (or in the case of if i am going with my raids tank mostly dpsing) in dungeons trials and even raids (because gravity is the best looking spell in the game and if you havent looked at its animation closely please do the detail is amazing) but in a group of randoms there is a huge trust issue. I am in a group of people who I have never played with I dont know if you can dodge or not and taking early dodgable damage gives me zero faith you will dodge when it comes to boss mobs. Tanks cant stun the AoE of the dolls in "the vault" after pulling the entire hall without cooldowns and body agroing everything so the second I cast any heal I die? Well I am not going to be dpsing much. Maybe its me being bitter after dealing with so many random people over the last 3 years who think their dps is the be all end all that pushes me away from the dps mentality (I actively refuse to play any dps jobs in a group setting even though I have them leveled) of that is all that matters is that number you are doing or tanks who think they set the pace without taking into account that the healer may be a bit undergeared than they are used to or they dont pop the cooldowns I am used to. Tank grabs too much? Healers fault that the group died. DPS standing in too much AoE and die, healers fault. It is a lot of pressure because the second any party member dies its the healers fault and I have on a few occasions had tanks in again the vault stand on the 2nd bosses black orbs take massive damage get the debuffs then whine when they die because of how bad the healing was.

There are bad apples in all roles and I hate healers who even in the low dungeons with faery up then afk on follow (please just kick them for offline afk or even harassment) but healing is a stressful job. I have done all roles both in a raid setting and in a more casual dungeon setting and I can say that healing is by far the hardest to play as its not 1-2-3 (dps) and its not AoE AoE AoE go into 1-2-3 (tank). Every single mistake the group makes the healer has to pick up and a healing mistake while stance dancing or not is a wipe. Clerics stance activates the cooldown on it and you are locked into it for 6 seconds which means no healing for 8 seconds after putting it up. That may seem like a small time but when your tank just took a large hit that should have been avoided and you are stuck sitting there for another 4 seconds watching them at 1k HP praying they mitigate the next auto attack it feels like an eternity. If a healer is not comfortable doing it then dont make them. Accept that it is a bonus and seperates a good healer (party is taken care of and people dont die even if they mess up a bit unless it wasnt preventable (stood in the beam/ran during a stack mechanic/stays in the quicksand/doesnt do instant death machanic right) and a great or amazing healer (you shaved 3-4mins off the 25min dungeon while doing it)

I do not advocate the my sub my rules because there are some basis for community standards but at the same time making someone feel uncomfortable playing this game because they are not at your level of skill is pretty selfish and quite a jerk move on your part.

[Deathgiver]

Snipped.

While you're right that judging people for their skill level is wrong, we're talking about someone who is refusing to do his part on the basis of principal, not skill. His posts indicate a lack of consideration for his fellow players, not a lack of skills. If he got paired with 3 other people with his same mindset (minimal button presses as long as it fulfills the basis of the role) He'd be timing out in dungeons while the tank spammed flash in tank stance and the dps spammed some random damage skill over and over again.

[Yurimi]

While you're right that judging people for their skill level is wrong, we're talking about someone who is refusing to do his part on the basis of principal, not skill. His posts indicate a lack of consideration for his fellow players, not a lack of skills. If he got paired with 3 other people with his same mindset (minimal button presses as long as it fulfills the basis of the role) He'd be timing out in dungeons while the tank spammed flash in tank stance and the dps spammed some random damage skill over and over again.

and like I said in my post I support the removal of people like him from the party. My post was more reflected to the entirety of this argument in general.

[Gokuhan]

That's how I like to play my game. Nobody is going to change that and I could give a crap less what random people on the internet call me for playing this game how I want (seriously).

If I wanted to RP as an Ice Mage and spam only Blizzard-type spells that would be ok? My sub I play how I want!

To be serious, you and others like you have no reason to be against this. It would not penalize you in any way.

[Fevelle]

If I wanted to RP as an Ice Mage and spam only Blizzard-type spells that would be ok? My sub I play how I want!

Technically, yes. If I asked you why you were using only Blizzard and you replyed that it was because of RP, I'd just shake it off and move on with the run. Anyway, Ice-Mages are just scarecrows in this type of argument, they probably don't even exist in the DF.

[MaikoRaines]

If I wanted to RP as an Ice Mage and spam only Blizzard-type spells that would be ok? My sub I play how I want!

To be serious, you and others like you have no reason to be against this. It would not penalize you in any way.

And don't forget the people who roll level 60's but NEVER do the job quests for the advanced classes (BRD, DRG, WHM) I've done some PFs where people would literally queue up as our healer, but as an Arcanist.... that's been happening as of late and there hasn't been a party I've joined where they would get kicked for not only not doing their role, but casting THM spells and no heals.

Last week it was an Archer - the group couldn't kick him fast enough, he was falling behind and getting rolled. He wasn't even following mechanics... kept dying. Got to the point where the healer (not me, I was an actual Bard) stopped raising him.

But hey, we pay the subscription, we can play how we want, right? Screw everyone else...