A proposed solution for having players become better players.

[RiceisNice]

The rewards would be for each players performance metric rather than relative to each other. Of course this means there has to be an established guideline, but honestly for any sort of new implementation for this game to work, there has to be a thought process behind it; something a lot of their content lately desperately needs. But that's another issue altogether.

[Cwestcott18]

Certainly sounds like an idea, albeit not a good one, but there is really only one way to better yourself and that is to want to do better in your specified roles. I don't really see how getting graded on the "extras" makes you any better overall, so basically if you DPS while healing in a dungeon once somehow makes you better at your role. Being graded in general, what is this a school?

[Deathgiver]

Certainly sounds like an idea, albeit not a good one, but there is really only one way to better yourself and that is to want to do better in your specified roles. I don't really see how getting graded on the "extras" makes you any better overall, so basically if you DPS while healing in a dungeon once somehow makes you better at your role. Being graded in general, what is this a school?

No, it's team-centric play, which means the needs/wants of the group outweigh the needs/wants of the individual.

[Imoen]

The rewards would be for each players performance metric rather than relative to each other. Of course this means there has to be an established guideline, but honestly for any sort of new implementation for this game to work, there has to be a thought process behind it; something a lot of their content lately desperately needs. But that's another issue altogether.

Right, like I said it would just bling out players that are already performing well. Besides not getting a bonus, it does nothing to teach or help, or w/e this system would be trying to do in reality. At a cursory glance, this system just looks like more rewards for people that already know how to play well.

What rewards could you give? Bonus xp at content below 60? There is a thread with people already upset, that leveling could be getting skips and sped up etc... Bonus stones? (So you can cap faster? "yay..") Gil? ("yay...") An achievement that gives a mount that not everyone will even care about? To me it just seems like it would be another pinata for people to get easy rewards. (as if there isn't enough of those)

Anyway, I'm not trying to dissuade people from agreeing with such a system, I'm just pointing out that it is fundamentally flawed in it's ability to actually achieve the purpose from which it was conceived.

[Neophyte]

I don't see where she said she heals you at 99% HP and afks.

What he's saying is:

If you don't dps in some dungeons/situations and depending on group, you're either overhealing a lot (bad healeing usually) or only using 30% or less of the battle time a global CD (bad playing).

[NovaLevossida]

But the big question is, why are people against something that promotes people to be better at their role? it;s not even adding a negative consequence for poor performance.

I'm kind of surprised on that point, but I guess I shouldn't be. There's absolutely no punishment for continuing to play as people always have. There's just an incentive for "playing the objective." That's why a game like Battlefield gives you point bonuses for objective play for everything you do while on top of a capture point compared to someone just off in the middle of nowhere racking up kills but not playing the objective. The difference is that in FFXIV, "points" are worth more than they are in Battlefield because cutting down on the anima / leveling grind, capping out tomes with fewer instances per week, a chance at an item drop of some sort, and/or even a gil bonus are better extrinsic rewards.

I guess I don't see the problem with incentivizing people to do a bit more than the bare minimum.

[Beetle]

Reasons why players are bad,

1. They have no interest in endgame or any content called extreme. Whats the point in learning something your not gonna need.
2. Not enough time to get invested into the game.
3. Not caring to keep your Job up to date with the highest item level of the patch.
4. Doing side content or content you don't need while everyone else is way above you in gear.
5. Don't read the ability help text.

Players that don't gear or learn the fight but still expect to enter a party finder with il225 that is farming for birds.

[Aylis]

Quoted you on this in the Topic "Do healer need to help doing dps? Especially cleric stance?" because you pretty much nailed it.
Hope you dont mind xD

A lot of it too is people in general really need to come up with some kinda standard expectation when it comes to healer's doing DPS. Either yay or nay. I used to love healing but one can only take so many ping-ponging expectations before its time to throw in the towel.

Join Group A) Do my normal buffs and stuff. Dungeon starts, everyone is good and not in any danger of death, its safe to start DPS. I do and promptly get screamed at for DPS'ing and not healing...even if um, no one needs healing.

Join Group B) Um, okay so no one seems to want a healer DPS'ing so I'll just sit and do nothing but heal this time. Dungeon starts, everyone is okay...I get screamed at for not DPS'ing. \._./

[Imoen]

snip

Well here is my thing, it doesn't really do that at all. (incentivize)

People will just play, and either get the bonus or not, or it will promote "try hard" behavior, to the point where it actually screws up fights, just because you know.. "gotta have that bonus". There are a lot of bonus' already in the game as it is, so at least from my point of view it just will be another thing to check off the list, or more likely not even worry about because the bar would most likely be set pretty low.

It might make a few players wonder why they are not able to get the bonus, but without some sort of info as to "Why?" or "How" it wouldn't really help and could confuse them even more so than they already are.

If the point in the system is to incentivize people playing better, but lacks a way of communicating the "why" or "how" to those that are not getting the reward, then the system falls flat in it's intent and becomes another gil/tome/achievement grind and or vending machine for players that already know what they are doing.

[NovaLevossida]

Well here is my thing, it doesn't really do that at all. (incentivize)

People will just play, and either get the bonus or not, or it will promote "try hard" behavior, to the point where it actually screws up fights, just because you know.. "gotta have that bonus". There are a lot of bonus' already in the game as it is, so at least from my point of view it just will be another thing to check off the list, or more likely not even worry about because the bar would most likely be set pretty low.

It might make a few players wonder why they are not able to get the bonus, but without some sort of info as to "Why?" or "How" it wouldn't really help and could confuse them even more so than they already are.

If the point in the system is to incentivize people playing better, but lacks a way of communicating the "why" or "how" to those that are not getting the reward, then the system falls flat in it's intent and becomes another gil/tome/achievement grind and or vending machine for players that already know what they are doing.

I'm envisioning that the first thing people will ask when they see a bonus is "what is that" and the second thing will be "how do I get that?" If it encourages a player to do some research whether in-game or out of game, I'm more than happy about it. While there are a lot of bonuses in the game, I can't think of any tied to rewarding player skill. You have challenge log bonuses, roulette bonuses, adventurer in need bonuses, first time bonuses, etc., but nothing based on how well you played. I don't think it's out of the question that they could implement a pop-up help box at the end of your first instance following the implementation that explains what the bonus is and how to get it either.

I'm not especially concerned about rewarding people who are already playing well. That should be the end goal for every player, so I'm not bothered about people already at the finish line. There's a lot of things I could suggest to help make players better, but you've already seen the backlash about a system specifically designed so as to not punish anyone for how they already play, so lots of things are out of the question. As for "try hard" behavior messing up fights, that's why I'd have liked to track avoidable damage taken for DPS roles if possible. I don't think in itself is feasible, but you could probably look at an average expected damage taken per fight and penalize for excess amounts so as to make them not stand in stuff for more DPS.