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  1. #41
    Player
    Imoen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    542
    Character
    Imoen Orunitia
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Haha, it always cracks me up with the Healers do DPS thing. Honestly It goes like this in priority.

    1. Keep Party Alive <> get rid of negative status'
    2. DPS

    Number 2 is highly dependent on a few factors.

    1. Comfort- When you don't feel comfortable stance dancing etc... thinking you will miss a critical cure when it is needed, you are going to be less likely to want to gamble with the DPS side of a healer roll.

    2. Knowledge of current Content - Knowing when and where it is appropriate to be able to dps takes time. Just because you have healed this dungeon 358729587 times doesn't mean the healer you have, has... this ties directly back to number one.

    3. Experience with compositions - While having different compositions generally turns out the same, there are several nuances to learn, that significantly change the heal/dps "when, wheres and hows"

    4. General reaction time of the player - I know it is hard to believe, but people are not all equal with the speed in which they are able to react, this is especially noticeable on healer. I don't think they should have to switch rolls, because they are playing what they like.

    AND at the end of the day ... lets be honest. In general dungeon runs... a healer just healing... isn't going to wreck the party. A healer missing critical heals and timings because they are trying to juggle too much when they aren't comfortable yet... will. This isn't to say you shouldn't try to do this whenever you can. This wave of "healers that don't dps are crap" however; I don't think is called for.

    In regard to to the original post, in my opinion, this is a crap idea. All it does is bling people that are already good at things and crap on people that may not be up to the same caliber. A rating system at the end of a run would be better, just to get an over all top down view of how people performed, but even that is "meh"

    You always have the option to drop out of a group if it is annoying you that bad. I know there are some stubborn mules out there that really don't grasp the roll at all. In my experience however; this is far and in between, maybe I get lucky.
    (16)
    Last edited by Imoen; 07-06-2016 at 03:07 AM.

  2. #42
    Player
    Eldevern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,009
    Character
    R'lileen Min'enoth
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Genaxx View Post
    All they seem interested in is creating glamour and fluff content.
    This is nothing but a joke but :
    MMOs are the best way to allow men to play Barbie with their alt. Fluffy stuff and fancy is the best way to make money in all MMOs, think about coreans ones

    Challenging content? What a weird expectation, creation and fashion are everything.

    Well considering the reality, maybe it is not a joke that much, but only on observation, thought
    (0)

  3. #43
    Player
    mp-please's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    449
    Character
    Danielle Leclair
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Imoen View Post
    Haha, it always cracks me up with the Healers do DPS thing. Honestly It goes like this in priority.

    1. Keep Party Alive <> get rid of negative status'
    2. DPS
    Considering the design of the latest lvl 60 dungeons and how tanks can self heal for enough to keep themselves going for each pull, allow me to correct that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imoen View Post
    1. Keep Party Alive
    2. DPS
    3. Keep Party at 100% hp
    4. Clean debuffs
    1. Comfort- when you don't feel comfortable stance dancing etc... thinking you will miss a critical cure when it is needed you are going to be less likely to want to gamble with the DPS side of a healer roll.
    Fairy on sch case and a single regen/aspected benefic for whm/ast is enough to keep the tank alive per pull, what are you going to do till mobs die?

    2. Knowledge of current Content - Knowing when and where it is appropriate to be able to dps takes time, just because you have healed this dungeon 358729587 times doesn't mean the healer you have, has... this ties directly back to number one.
    Dungeons on this game use the exact same formula since lvl 1. Trash mobs aren't going to suddenly start doing heavensfall or divebomb, their damage is the most predictable thing.

    3. Experience with compositions - While having different compositions generally turns out the same, there are several nuances to learn that significantly change the heal/dps "when, wheres and hows"
    Nothing in a party composition stops a healer from dpsing. All tanks are capable of the exact same mitigation rate, hell, speaking of self heal, the tank some healers "feel" that is the worst for healing, is the one that can self heal the most making the healer spot completely useless.

    4. General reaction time of the player - I know it is hard to believe but people are not all equal with the speed in which they are able to react, this is especially noticeable on healer. I don't think they should have to switch rolls, because they are playing what they like.
    Players who turn cleric on are usually more reactive to the fight than the ones who don't, who usually get distracted since they aren't doing anything.

    AND at the end of the day ... lets be honest. In general dungeon runs... a healer just healing... isn't going to wreck the party. A healer missing critical heals and timings because they are trying to juggle too much when they aren't comfortable yet... will. This isn't to say you shouldn't try to do this whenever you can. This wave of "healers that don't dps are crap" however; I don't think is called for.
    Current good healers can do 1200 ish dps on expert on single target and over 2k on aoe depending on the number of targets. Having a 3rd dps in party sure speeds things up and it's a lot more fun than spend the dungeon watching netflix.
    (10)
    Last edited by mp-please; 07-06-2016 at 03:16 AM.

  4. #44
    Player
    RiceisNice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    3,514
    Character
    Flo Fyloord
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    It could do some sort of calculation between healing, overhealing (for those that do nothing but spam their cure over and over on a 95% hp tank) and dps.

    But the big question is, why are people against something that promotes people to be better at their role? it;s not even adding a negative consequence for poor performance.
    (18)
    ____________________

  5. #45
    Player
    Deathgiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    491
    Character
    Krystalan Deathgiver
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 80
    Just popping in to point out that the "my sub, my way" view point is asinine. You don't own the servers the game is played on, they're shared domain which all the other people playing help to maintain with their subs too. It's pretty much identical to signing up for beer league baseball. You pay a fee to get access to the fields every game, but if you're not showing up for practice or trying to go "above and beyond" your specific role, don't be surprised if the other team members elect to bench you during a game. I know that at least one of the people using this argument has made some sort of comment about not caring about sports, but the analogy is there nonetheless. If you wanted to get more specific you could compare a healer to a goalie in any sport that uses one. Goalies "role" is to keep the ball out of the net, but if they're not passing the ball to their team mates to help create offense they are definitely not doing everything they can to help the team. In some cases a team might put up with it because they are doing good enough without the extra offense, in others they may elect to bench that goalie and find one that plays more to their liking. Same goes for healing, some groups might be willing to put up with a lack of offense, but others are well within their rights to get another sub-paying healer into the instance that is more willing to work with the team.
    (19)

  6. #46
    Player
    Mycow8me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,057
    Character
    Tolby Seyfert
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Blacksmith Lv 70
    In my experience... The people who complain that healers don't dps are also the ones that complain about a wipe because the healer tried to dps and then stuff went horribly wrong at an inopportune time.
    Seriously, why would you want your healer to risk dps for anything other than a dps clock mechanic. I can see it in dungeons except for extremely large pulls but... really. I quit healer in this game just because of this. I try to dps and max performance and when I miss a cure or some dps/tank fails to dodge while im on the wrong stance/dpsing and causes a party wipe... You can bet that I will be the one they blame.

    As for the OP: This system is probably the best one I've seen so far but when it comes to bonuses... They are usually so meager that they are ignored. Something like performance tickets that you can save up/trade for maybe a Materia V or something would actually be cool enough to make me care but a few more lores, gil, etc... probably not.
    (7)

  7. #47
    Player
    Imoen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    542
    Character
    Imoen Orunitia
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by mp-please View Post
    snip
    You are preaching to the wrong person. Everything you listed here ties into number 2 and 1.

    Your first response ties into number 1 and 2

    Your second response ties into all of them.

    Your third response is a moot point, since I stated "this isn't to say you shouldn't try to do this whenever you can"

    Your fourth response is a general blanket statement that isn't necessarily based in reality.

    Fun is a relative thing, I also never argued about "speed" so again.. a moot point. Your netflix comment identifies your character immediately, I personally find it boring to just cure, but I wasn't talking about me.
    (5)
    Me: "Aww man I'm clicking all the wrong buttons tonight!"
    Friend: "You're i190, you can't click a wrong button unless it is no buttons"
    Me: "lol"

  8. #48
    Player
    mp-please's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    449
    Character
    Danielle Leclair
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Imoen View Post
    Your fourth response is a general blanket statement that isn't necessarily based in reality.
    If SE ever implements a ingame parse, it's going to be such a reality slap into some people.
    (8)

  9. #49
    Player
    RiceisNice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    3,514
    Character
    Flo Fyloord
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by mp-please View Post
    If SE ever implements a ingame parse, it's going to be such a reality slap into some people.
    An ingame parse by itself won't do much other than tell you numbers. Now when there's dps checks that require both dps to do more than spam their DoT abiliy over and over, that's when the reality-check comes in. Though it will help to quantify numbers and at least back up the times where healers/tanks are somehow outdpsing a dps.
    (4)
    ____________________

  10. #50
    Player
    Imoen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    542
    Character
    Imoen Orunitia
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by mp-please View Post
    If SE ever implements a ingame parse, it's going to be such a reality slap into some people.
    No, not really. The people that pay attention already know what is happening. The people that aren't, may or may not not care, may or not be able to improve to what others want them to.
    (1)
    Me: "Aww man I'm clicking all the wrong buttons tonight!"
    Friend: "You're i190, you can't click a wrong button unless it is no buttons"
    Me: "lol"

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