Players Who Don't pull their weight.

[Archaell]

...

Think about it like this: Would you rather players to complain on forums or inside of the DF? In my book it is pointless to complain in-game - that just makes things worse. On the other hand forum seems like a good place to provide feedback about your gaming experience.

Premade groups are not solution to the state of DF. It just allows the player to avoid the issue. Some players are okay with that, some are trying to propose changes that could make DF better. Of course there are suggestions that could lead to more actively toxic community, but that is again matter of perspective. Personally I see bigger problem with the passively toxic community - players who are not doing their best while joining groups of random people. I can deal with a jerk, dealing with a person who sux and you don't know what is the reason behind it is much more difficult. There are many players who are exploiting the "it could be a kid, old lady or impaired person" argument and the worst part about it is that this approach is working very well in the current setting.

How do we fix this? How do we make players more responsible for their actions with the current tools? Unless there is a fixed feature that would motivate players to pay attention and play better I don't think we can fix this. For the Party Finder we could maybe talk about server wide black lists, but DF has absolutely no consequences beyond the small chance of getting kicked, which is funnily so low because many players are afraid of being reported for harassment.

And you want to shut people out that don't preform well enough for your standarts? Well, by my standart you should be labelled as utter trash if you don't:

It is not nice to label the whole player base "trash". Not to mention that you have to follow your own rules otherwise you would be "trash" as well. There is a difference between wanting players to contribute and the points you mentioned.

Seriously, stop taking yourself so god damn serious. This is a game. If you can not handle people taking a game less serious than you, don't play or surround yourself with likeminded people.

The funny thing about your post is that you actually wrote the most important piece in small letters. Having an option to surround yourself with likeminded people inside of DF is something that is missing.

[Seraphix2407]

[I]D.[/SIZE]

Someone is clearly butthurt. QUOTE anyone who say we need those standars. We only want decent gameplay. Sorry to say but you have the toxic side of the community. Sad.

[Waterdeep]

It is not nice to label the whole player base "trash". Not to mention that you have to follow your own rules otherwise you would be "trash" as well. There is a difference between wanting players to contribute and the points you mentioned.

I am not labelling the whole playerbase as trash. I am labelling you as trash. Right now, right here, in that ludicrous example I have given, you are trash. Op clearly stated that he didn't want to 'carry' people and that he wants them to preform at the same level that he does: 110%. And that is fair. But you have to accept the fact that the implcation is still there: You are not preforming, you are trash, into the trash DF queue you go. And yes, of course you could phrase it much nicer: Normal and hardcore, or normal and expert queue. Still no one, not even OP would fulfill the dumb things I listed, despite all these things being valid and contributing to a faster run. As soon as someone fulfills that list everyone else needs to keep up or shut up. That is how such a system needs to work otherwise it would defeat the point.

The funny thing about your post is that you actually wrote the most important piece in small letters. Having an option to surround yourself with likeminded people inside of DF is something that is missing.

But it clearly is not. You just want to arbitrary rating system to make yourself feel better. If you really wanted to have a better experience you'd become active yourself and search for those people. It is not SE's duty to make sure your checklist is checked in the SF experience. The DF trades the convinience of having to look for people yourself against the chance of having to play with people who might or might not play well. This whole thread is so bizzar to me, considering the DF experience in XIV has been so much more agreeable than in other online games.

Also, I am still assuming you people talk about Expert Roulette and things like this. Yes, in Savage and Ex primals there should be certain standarts.. and guess what, people actually use the party finder for that.

[Waterdeep]

Someone is clearly butthurt. QUOTE anyone who say we need those standars. We only want decent gameplay. Sorry to say but you have the toxic side of the community. Sad.

Very first post. OP doesn't want 100% (and that includes ALL options you have in the game, including HQ food and pots along with perfect rotation), he wants 110%, something that can, as I assume, only be things outside of the game like decent latency and good hardware. If you find yourself being attackd by me simply exaggerating OPs position I am sorry. But I am neither butthurt nor toxic and I'd prefere you to not lable me as such.

[Seraphix2407]

Very first post. OP doesn't want 100% (and that includes ALL options you have in the game, including HQ food and pots along with perfect rotation), he wants 110%, something that can, as I assume, only be things outside of the game like decent latency and good hardware. If you find yourself being attackd by me simply exaggerating OPs position I am sorry. But I am neither butthurt nor toxic and I'd prefere you to not lable me as such.

Chech his post again and quote it.

[Archaell]

I am not labelling the whole playerbase as trash. I am labelling you as trash. Right now, right here, in that ludicrous example I have given, you are trash. Op clearly stated that he didn't want to 'carry' people and that he wants them to preform at the same level that he does: 110%. And that is fair. But you have to accept the fact that the implcation is still there: You are not preforming, you are trash, into the trash DF queue you go. And yes, of course you could phrase it much nicer: Normal and hardcore, or normal and expert queue. Still no one, not even OP would fulfill the dumb things I listed, despite all these things being valid and contributing to a faster run. As soon as someone fulfills that list everyone else needs to keep up or shut up. That is how such a system needs to work otherwise it would defeat the point.

When you are setting impossible guidelines everybody is trash. Nobody is asking for impossible. The only thing being asked for are players to be focused on the game, to do their best and to learn how to play their job. Idk why is it hard to understand that players who try their best are being exploited by players who watch Netflix on the second monitor.

But it clearly is not. You just want to arbitrary rating system to make yourself feel better. If you really wanted to have a better experience you'd become active yourself and search for those people. It is not SE's duty to make sure your checklist is checked in the SF experience. The DF trades the convinience of having to look for people yourself against the chance of having to play with people who might or might not play well. This whole thread is so bizzar to me, considering the DF experience in XIV has been so much more agreeable than in other online games.

No, I just want players to be accountable for their play and doing their best to work with the rest of the group. With the mentality that anything in DF is allowed that is impossible so there must be some system to either make players want to do their best or a way to separate players who want to get carried from those who do try their best. Like "slow and easy" and "serious speedrun" options. What is the problem with that? Why couldn't players have a choice when it comes to groups DF puts them in? Of course in the perfect scenario the game would rank player's skill and put them in similar groups automatically. You can't argue that wouldn't be fair.

Also, I am still assuming you people talk about Expert Roulette and things like this. Yes, in Savage and Ex primals there should be certain standarts.. and guess what, people actually use the party finder for that.

Now you hit the true spot where the trash is - The Party Finder. I haven't seen something so broken in a while. In DF we have to live with people who don't care, nothing to do about it for now, in PF tho the community is complete rubbish. And nope I am not talking about skill. I am talking about selfish players who join parties above their experience. I had many posts about this recently. You join a group to practice last phase of Nidhogg etc. and players are dying in the phase 1 all the time... it is insane how much does the player base ignore the guidelines. Tho now when we are talking about this, I wonder how much does DF mentality carry to PF. The amount of kill groups who can't even get through half of the fight is mind-blowing... and it is really sad.

[ADVSS]

you know when yoshi p was tanking maps to show off aquapolis, he tauntingly barely did shit but unleash once every thirty seconds with no blood price, this wouldnt work in a group that even my casual self would play with. Point is youre a tank when you play a tank and carries are no longer a thing. Just kick the ice mages, its not worth your time or trouble, honestly. Play how i want, is cool if you go in as a full group, not so cool in df. and judging by recent cries about healers dpsing, its only going to get worse if you don't already

[Mattelot]

*snip*

The only thing you were correct about is that "elitist" was a word created by players. So what? It still holds its meaning. People don't call people who try and help an "elitist." They call those who feel the need to insult and condescend others who do not play to their personal standards. These toxic people are of no value to the community. All they care about doing is insulting people for not being "oh so awesome" like they are. I see a lot of it in these forums. They like to tell people that unless they've done "this or that" in the game, their opinion doesn't matter.

So the next time you call someone an "idiot", "stupid" or any other ridiculous label while you're "trying to help them improve" and wonder why they don't listen to you, think about it.

[Seraphix2407]

So the next time you call someone an "idiot", "stupid" or any other ridiculous label while you're "trying to help them improve" and wonder why they don't listen to you, think about it.

I don't call them an idiot. Check my previous post in other threads, you are more than welcome to do that. First of all, I've had sunshine stories, like the NIN who did 400 dps less than he should in bismarck for playing 85-90% optimaly. I told him in a nice way, at first he rejected because he heard people was parsing him. 2 days later he said, tell me your NIN friend and I'll talk to him, so they both went to my fc house and practiced rotation and opener. Guess what? Hes one of the good ninjas on my server and he always thank me for guiding him and my friend helping him as well.

When I help people first of all it depends on what they struggle with, mechanic or dps but lets talk about dps. If I see somethign wrong going on or someone parser them and they doing super low, I will tell them how to improve when to do cds , when to not use them etc. My first rule to get someones attention is to be nice to them and put yourself in their position then explain to them how they can deal with it.
Few have actually listened and taken advice, many however havent.

Also since you support bad play and it's fine to slack, imagine if everyone slacked everyday like these players in normal mode midas 4 (alex 8 normall)



Yeah okay, totally fine to do. Good you see this is going somewhere right? Actually you know what. I'm going to stream the fights people wipe the most to then just post it in here and you can see how bad people are, while you sit and asume things I say or do.

[Archaell]

The only thing you were correct about is that "elitist" was a word created by players. So what? It still holds its meaning.

The word elitist inside of this community no longer holds its meaning.

The definition would be something like:

"Anyone who dares to say that players could learn how to press buttons in the correct order; a person who believes in trying your best to contribute even if it means doing a little bit of learning".

btw. I haven't seen many players who call others "idiot" or "stupid", but I have seen many who do not listen to advice no matter how hard you try to present it.