Players Who Don't pull their weight.

[Alistaire]

There's some extreme irony in saying this isn't a game that's hard, like overwatch etc, and then saying it's too hard to figure out when aoe skills are good. Either the game is easy or it isn't, pick a side (hint: it's easy).

[Jetstream_Fox]

There's some extreme irony in saying this isn't a game that's hard, like overwatch etc, and then saying it's too hard to figure out when aoe skills are good. Either the game is easy or it isn't, pick a side (hint: it's easy).

This game is easy, but the way it puts forth information and the lack of training isn't the ideal way and thus makes things harder and leads to more lesser knowledgeable players. You main Nin right? Well do you know how many people who main that same class don't know Suiton gives you the ability to use Sneak or Trick attack, because it's not stated anywhere other than that little icon that shows up.

The point I'm making and you keep ignoring is not every player is going to be as skilled or knowledgeable when it comes to the what's and when's of this game, or any game for that matter. But continue to ignore the fact I'm putting forth, because it makes you look like those DPS who don't AoE.

[Alistaire]

This game is easy, but the way it puts forth information and the lack of training isn't the ideal way and thus makes things harder and leads to more lesser knowledgeable players. You main Nin right? Well do you know how many people who main that same class don't know Suiton gives you the ability to use Sneak or Trick attack, because it's not stated anywhere other than that little icon that shows up.

The point I'm making and you keep ignoring is not every player is going to be as skilled or knowledgeable when it comes to the what's and when's of this game, or any game for that matter. But continue to ignore the fact I'm putting forth, because it makes you look like those DPS who don't AoE.

Debating something and disagreeing with you is not "ignoring something". I've pointed out the fact that potency #s are listed on all job abilities, and you learn on Sesame Street how to figure out which adds up to a higher total. Beyond that saying I'm ignoring you based on what I've said means you don't understand how a debate even works, or are just trolling. I'll just consider myself trolled then.

[Jetstream_Fox]

Debating something and disagreeing with you is not "ignoring something". I've pointed out the fact that potency #s are listed on all job abilities, and you learn on Sesame Street how to figure out which adds up to a higher total. Beyond that saying I'm ignoring you based on what I've said means you don't understand how a debate even works, or are just trolling. I'll just consider myself trolled then.

You haven't debated anything, you haven't even attempted to debate me when it comes to the lack of actual training and development this game offers and how this is a main reason for the lack of honest play WHICH WAS MY POINT AND YOU KEEP MISSING IT. All you have stated is "the potency is on the skill" that has nothing to do with giving players training or fully understanding the ins and outs of each toolkit, which again I'll point you to the Suiton skill of your main class and how it doesn't state it gives you the hide effect outside of the icon, which led to many Nin upon release that didn't know all the skills properly.

All you keep stating is " adding potency %" I've even countered that view with situations involving MNK and DRG players and how the fact that yes, AoE is better, but the classes aren't built around those skills, like SMN, BRD, MCH and BLM.

[Leigaon]

I think a lot of it has to come from the way that iLV plays a part in dungeons and beyond it seems to be that a group can get to a point where they have to perform to some standards on their jobs, but as you get up there in iLV, the groups die faster and it gets easier. You can ignore mechanics, you don't have to activate cool downs.

There was a Scholar a while ago, while I was doing leveling roulette, and he couldn't get past the second boss in Cutters Cry. The sludge was killing us. He didn't have Leeches, so it was difficult to heal through. We looked at his gear and saw he didn't have much, some of it was low level or blank spaces. We asked, and he was really nice about his answer. It was mainly "I haven't had to really heal anything until now." That fairy really does a lot but we barely made it through by pulling together and in the end we made a full run to get him some chest gear. Luckily a few pieces dropped! Even though we got through it, it showed that our characters quickly get overpowered.

When 3.0 first came out people were struggling to an extent, maybe not everyone but a lot were..things were dying slower, things hit you harder, it was harder to heal. Tanks who were so use to being in DPS stance and rampaging through everything were dying quickly, healers who stayed in cleric weren't able to keep HP up. It's not so much these were bad players, they were placed into a situation at level 50, high geared, for so long that it became natural to them.

Now it's happening again, we can faceroll through a lot with ignoring mechanics or job functions. In 24 man content when everyone is powered out the wazoo and things are taking half the time to die whether you put your best foot forward or not, why not slack? I'm not defending them saying it is right I'm simply trying to get into the mind set.

There's no real threat for not doing your job to a certain skill level for about 80% of this game, only what is currently relevant.

...However I've been coming across a huge issue in the game that can't be addressed in any way...

I don't think it can be addressed in any way that wouldn't take up resources to fix older content and newer. I think they were in the right direction but didn't go far enough. Staves that created an AoE buff for all the mobs, but you could just move them out. Mobs that gave a healer -%, but we're so over powered we can heal through it before they're dead. Tank busters from larger mobs, worked for a bit because at the beginning you couldn't take 2 tank busters at once. Making things that have the tanks need to use cool downs and move, or healers who have to esuna + heal due to debuffs. Enhancements to mobs that should make a dps use a better rotation..it's doable, but the work required...

Meanwhile, I think there should be a reduction of mobs in places to compensate for the time it will take. Say for snowcloak, there's no need for all those trash until the first gate. They want to punish us for AoE'ing more than so many mobs, yet put us in situations where that's optimal at that point. Give us the trio of guys at a certain point and have one of the bigger ones have an Endgame / Boss like ability..mix that up with everything else, it would hopefully push peole

[Jetstream_Fox]

There was a Scholar a while ago, while I was doing leveling roulette, and he couldn't get past the second boss in Cutters Cry. The sludge was killing us. He didn't have Leeches.

The pain of not having Leeches unlocked in that dungeon is real, cutters cry is a 38+ dungeon and I'm pretty sure Leeches is a level 40 unlock. It was great planning on SE to give WHM Esuna at 18 but nothing for SCH until 40.

[MeiUshu]

The pain of not having Leeches unlocked in that dungeon is real, cutters cry is a 38+ dungeon and I'm pretty sure Leeches is a level 40 unlock. It was great planning on SE to give WHM Esuna at 18 but nothing for SCH until 40.

Adlo = lvl 40
Regen = lvl 35

In Cutter, I personally as a SCH I use adlo, as a WHM regen/ esuna if realy realy needed depending on the group you might find youself without mana faster then you think. Sometimes is best to leave poison on ..if you remove it will be re-applied asap...especially true in Toto.

Somtimes is good to know a little of others people job, to be of help rather then kick them or insultem for something they may not know or learned they could do otherwise, instead nooo they are kicked, insulted and the like yet by doing so they still didnt learn anything *lol*..how silly

[Altena]

I think a lot of it has to come from the way that iLV plays a part in dungeons...

*Slow clap*...

Bang on the money with this post. Well said.

I actually want to highlight a few things that you said so that others didn't miss it.

...You can ignore mechanics, you don't have to activate cool downs...

This has always been a huge problem in this game for me. At the start of the patch when new content is released, like you were saying - the content starts out fine normally (even at the start of every new release of the 2x 4-man dungeons) people take a lot more damage than they are used to from plowing through the previous 2 dungeons at the end of the patch. This is kind of expected to an extent but it quickly becomes a non-issue and you're back to pulling 100 mobs and AoEing them down.

....Meanwhile, I think there should be a reduction of mobs in places to compensate for the time it will take. Say for snowcloak, there's no need for all those trash until the first gate. They want to punish us for AoE'ing more than so many mobs, yet put us in situations where that's optimal at that point. Give us the trio of guys at a certain point and have one of the bigger ones have an Endgame / Boss like ability..mix that up with everything else, it would hopefully push peole

I wanted to highlight this whole paragraph, mostly because I have had a similar opinion from the very beginning of 2.0... Trash mob's abilities mean absolutely nothing. They are just a red telegraph on the ground that you need to avoid.

I would kill for the increase in difficulty on trash mobs in dungeons and reduce the shear number of mobs. Throw an oldschool Coincounter in there that deals boss-like damage with no telegraphs.. Add in a non-telegraphed Chimera that forces you to pay attention to breaths and voices... Make the trash worth the attention, and people in general would be less face grindy through all of this content.

I understand that 4-man dungeons should be "accessible" as they are just the tome grindy dungeons but it doesn't mean you have to simply throw a whole lot of open world mobs in a dungeon, give them a bit more HP and call it a day. Give us "trash" that is not truly "trash"...

Remember those rock golems in Turn 1 & 3 in coil? They could wreck your party if you didn't tank them properly & if you weren't paying attention. (Sure that was coil... However they are considered "trash".)
That random coin counter in Snowcloak? (he is rather easy and has low HP even with appropriate iLvl)... Add more bosses that create an impact and actually forces people to focus..

Hell, if they are feeling super creative, randomize these "big trash mobs" so you don't always get the same mob..

There are a number of ways they could make the 4-man stuff more interesting over and above the existing formula of "Trash > boss > trash > boss > trash > boss".. This is in my opinion the real reason why people "don't care" in 4-man dungeons.. It's because they don't have to.

[Kaeoni]

Snip

I love those Ideas!

I think this type of thing which forces players to actively engage and deal with situations could really help, Especially If implemented and experienced while the player is still learning to enforce good habits!

Weren't you advocating positive approach to people in DF few pages back? And now you are condescending and mocking Sipherous for his ability to make friends? Calling him lazy and stuff? What if the dude has some social disorder and so his ability to make friends is limited?

I'll start with this. Highlighting the main word from that piece i wrote below.

As objectively as possible I read and think to myself...

I've said this 50 times it feels like... =/
If you're going to complain about other random people you have no control over. Then you'd probably have a more positive outlook on this game if you made your own groups. Is this false? If you're constantly complaining about other people in DF and you're distraught because of constantly being paired up with people who just aren't pulling their weight then is making your own group the wrong answer? MMOs are social experiences. Massive Multiplayer Online Game. If you don't understand that playing an MMO means you're Online, in a multiplayer environment... I dunno what else to say...

And for the record I'm not mocking anyone. Maybe it sounds like it from the way I type. But I'm pretty light hearted. I'm suggesting answers to questions. Answers that currently exist in the game right now. We have the ability to fix these problems. And If you choose not to fix them then yes. I apologize, but that is by definition lazy. And It's a shame because the amount of fun you could behaving right now at this very second could be easily multiplied. I have ADHD. Social anxiety comes with it. I don't take medication for it probably because I'm an idiot and I want to suffer with my problem. But I don't believe in taking medication for it because I want to overcome it even if it is something i'll have for the rest of my life. I give it everything I've got, every day. Most people don't have an excuse. But I don't use my problem as a crutch. I struggle desperately to better myself. and people see that and are receptive. Naturally you have to take my word for it. But at the end of the day I can sleep knowing what I did, at least by my own set of morals was right. I have 16 friends on my FL, a Free Company full of about 20 pretty active members, 2 Hunt LS's including an LS I made for people I like to talk to because /tells are annoying and full of RMT crap and It just clogs up my chat screen. haha. I mean I'm far below what I could have? I still do DF a lot of the time, but I usually take 2-3 people with me into everything cuz we like to hang out.

Telling individuals that they should stop using DF is not solution to anything... DF is for everybody meaning even for the people who complain on the forum and they have right to complain for being exploited by people who waste their time. There is absolutely no reason that DF should stay a feature only for the underperforming players. DF is part of the game, everyone is entitled to use it...

Yet not all the players should play together. The people do not work like that. There should seriously be something done about DF to improve it, at least more options when selecting the duty instead of just one tick. The Raid Finder with it's options to select phases and clear/training is a good step forward.

I didn't suggest people should stop using DF. I suggested it to people who are fed up. I can understand that. I really can. But is complaining going to do anything about it? And is there a way to free yourself from this pain currently in the game? Well... I'm sorry for saying for the 51st time... there is... Make your own groups....

What some people here have suggested, Is putting a little yellow star on peoples jackets letting everyone know who these people are. Because marginalization of a group of people has never proven a problem in the past right? An extreme example, I know... But As I've said in the past. We the players, and an autonomous system can't accurately and are not entitled to rating DF people based off 10-40 minutes of primarily non-verbal contact.

[KarstenS]

Give us "trash" that is not truly "trash"...

In CT1 we had between boss fights, that were no regular trash mobs. I really loved it. I would like to see more of fillers like this.