Does FF14 needs a new small race?

[Nestama]

Only if they're not 'cute' or 'adorable.' We have enough of that already.

[Underdog2204]

Lalafel already skirt the line depending how a player chooses to dress themself, and they are described as childlike. Loli'esque races have been a thing in MMO's before, it's a real possibility in all regards so I'll keep using the term- even if Lalafels and other MMO's races aren't actually children. Besides, Lolicon even uses the term "Childlike" or "girls with youthful characteristics" in it's opening description in all the sources I'm reading from, not necessarily chronologically and hormonally a child.

It's creepy as hell no matter how it's distinguished.

It's even more creepy when people request it's inclusion in games. I'm not big on the whole "well they are classed as adults" excuse usually given too... They still look like children.

[Greedalox]

It's creepy as hell no matter how it's distinguished.

Amen.

/10char

[Samcaesar]

Snip

It's still not an appropriate term. It's not about whether or not they are actual children, it's specifically about using and normalizing a term that's about sexualizing children, which is a bad thing. Of course it uses the terms "Childlike" and stuff, it's porn specifically about sexualizing children that might want to skirt around that fact. The term originally came from Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita about an adult man lusting after and eventually raping 12 year old girl, so using it to describe a small race isn't a good thing. Even if you want a more neoteny orientated race just say "Youthful" or something akin, as opposed to a term about a genre of porn.

It's creepy as hell no matter how it's distinguished.

It's even more creepy when people request it's inclusion in games. I'm not big on the whole "well they are classed as adults" excuse usually given too... They still look like children.

Agreed.

[Greedalox]

It's still not an appropriate term. It's not about whether or not they are actual children, it's specifically about using and normalizing a term that's about sexualizing children, which is a bad thing. Of course it uses the terms "Childlike" and stuff, it's porn specifically about sexualizing children that might want to skirt around that fact. The term originally came from Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita about an adult man lusting after and eventually raping 12 year old girl, so using it to describe a small race isn't a good thing. Even if you want a more neoteny orientated race just say "Youthful" or something akin, as opposed to a term about a genre of porn.

May I ask what the difference between using the words "Sexualizing childlike characters" and "Loli" in terms of discussion on a forum is? Using a word doesn't normalize it, especially when it's used in negative context- disapproving of it's addition. The term is fine because it perfectly explains the potential problem in full and in one word (That's a benefit to language, a paragraph in a word), they have existed in MMO's and other games before.

If using a fitting word to describe something negative was normalization, then lefties would be creating a multitude of problems with terms like Rape, as by your logic it would perpetuate it or normalize it. It's nothing more than a word meant to describe more than it's 4 letters would imply.

[Samcaesar]

Snip

My issue is you can have a small folk race without using "Loli" on them in the same breath, and people tend to already over use the term thinking it just means "little girl", hence the phrasing of my ask/caution.

Using the term "Rape culture" describes what that culture is, which is perpetuating the various parts of culture that allow rape to continue/be normalized. "Loli" is used in way to many scenarios when it doesn't apply (Like someone saying "Loli flat" to describe a woman with a flat chest in this thread) or just ends up forcing a sexualized term on a little girl (Which was incredibly notable whenever that Miqo'te kid was added to the game). I have enough respect for the FFXIV dev team that if they made a small folk race that's neotenic in nature that they'd also avoid sexualizing them, hence why if someone wants a child-like race I'd rather folks not use the term.

I think you and I both agree that having a small-folk race that looks like/is sexualized kids isn't something we want, so mind if we end this disagreement here?

[Nandalowell]

I've never understood how being short (and cute to some) makes us children.. If that's your logic look at these cute kids!

[SpookyGhost]

Only if they're not 'cute' or 'adorable.' We have enough of that already.

[Underdog2204]

I've never understood how being short (and cute to some) makes us children.. If that's your logic look at these cute kids!

It's more than being small and cute, children have childrens features - Round faces, big eyes etc. Giving a race these features and emotes that clearly are meant to mirror that of children is uncomfortable ground in any game that lets you play dress-up with adult clothing.

Yes such a race is bound to be cute because we are hardwired to find children cute and endearing.

That picture you posted look like adults because their features are adult ones.

Like this Gnome is clearly and adult even though they are short and the same can be said for WoW's Goblin's (the best race in that game I might add xD)

[TankHunter678]

Loli can be used to describe a style of costume Gothic Lolita, or a body build which is short with a flat chest and commonly with youthful appearance.

The thing people generally are concerned about when the word Loli is brought up is child pornography, or the sexualization of small children (something many lalafell players can be accused of), is an entirely different thing that should be stamped out with extreme prejudice.

The problem is not a small race made in a design commonly associated with loli, the problem is if the small race looks like children. Often times where many MMOs mess up is making the small race look too much like children cause they try to make them "cute" or "adorable" which creates issues.

You could take an au ra, make it as short as it can be, make it have a flat chest, make it look a bit younger and it would fit with the loli archetype. Throw it in a gothic lolita dress for good measure. Can even change it from horns and scales to fox/bunny ears add tails and you got a new race that is the loli archetype, but not a problem maker like lalafells are.