DRK tanking. A little bit of pain.

[Violette]

totes got b@nd

I understand that too much of an increase would tip the scales back in favor of MT DRK, but it's an alternate route to better "physical" mitigation by giving more reactive HP regen as opposed to proactive reductions.
And I remember the Thordan's as well, I ended up clenching often because one or more healer's are dead.

It's not that Soul Eater is a PROBLEM per say, it's just the most obvious tool for further mitigation being added too it, given it won't change Dark Knight's rotations (we already use it for basically every occasion) and that it'll just be making a good thing better.


It's really about adding mitigation without changing skills majorly. More healing on SE would just mean Drk has better recovery options from big hits (compared to Clemency (when well timed) and IB/Equili) than it currently does.

Other options would be adding a small defensive bonus to Dark Arts (5% physical for 10 seconds). I don't want to see Dark Dance getting any more defensive skills (because CD would have to go up) and I cannot think of anywhere else on the current kit it could go.

[ADVSS]

It's not that Soul Eater is a PROBLEM per say, it's just the most obvious tool for further mitigation being added too it, given it won't change Dark Knight's rotations (we already use it for basically every occasion) and that it'll just be making a good thing better.


It's really about adding mitigation without changing skills majorly. More healing on SE would just mean Drk has better recovery options from big hits (compared to Clemency (when well timed) and IB/Equili) than it currently does.

I did suggest changes that would slightly differ the game play, but if SE was treated similarly to path, i wouldnt complain. I dont know if its because reprisal stacks with path or not, that it cant be chosen to be put up 100% of the time or not, but seems wonky. if anything it wouldnt really break gameplay if something small was added to it(SE)...idk what though, str down 5%?(would it stack with ROH?)

[SyzzleSpark]

I don't want to see Dark Dance getting any more defensive skills (because CD would have to go up)

Why? Dark Mind's recast is 60s, and its WAY better, against its respective damage type. +30% parry rate and a 10% physical Stoneskin on a tank doesn't warrant more than a 60s recast, in my eyes anyway. It would essentially become Dark Dance + a lesser version of Sheltron, basically, for double the recast (of Sheltron). Seems appropriate, honestly.

On a side note, I'm curious as to why people do this - someone suggests a relatively sensible, minor buff to a cooldown, and they assume that there would HAVE to be a string attached, like a longer recast. Sometimes good things can just happen \o/

I don't think a defensive bonus to DA is really necessary or a good idea. DRK already has a built in mitigation gimmick - Reprisal. DRK as a tank basically has a sort of built-in Eye 4 an Eye. Just like WAR has big self heals, and PLD has its shield. Taking any kind of passive boost onto DA would actually make the mechanic clunky because you'd want to pop it much farther in advance of what you plan to boost it with than you do now. Then if something like DP comes off recast you're looking at a DPS loss for having to hold it until you shed the DA boost on its intended recipient.

This all being said, I'd still not argue with a *slight* boost to Souleater's healing power. I still find it a little bit silly that it doesn't ignore the Grit penalty, at least when DA'd.

[Violette]

Because while dark knight has some issues is poorly balanced content, so does paladin.
In balanced fights, they both perform very well defensively, so while this is the case, anything that would buff one classes capabilities, there would be a small push against it as well.

This is only for balanced classes, which i think we can agree pld/drk are. If we were buffing w.r.t. war then it'd be fine.

Not to mention it never hurts to be cautious when SE is playing with numbers.

[JackFross]

In that vein, at the same time as I agree DRK could use just a tad extra physical mitigation, I think it would be pretty sensible to give PLD a similar treatment, even if that treatment is as simple as slapping a "you can now block magic attacks" effector to Bulwark. That ALONE would be a fantastic upgrade to fill that lull in cooldowns between Ramp - Sen - Ramp - _____ - Ramp - Sen when a boss is using Magical busters.

Bulwark+Sheltron = auto block magic buster once per 3 minutes.

[KeluBehemoth]

The only time you should be using Dark Passenger is on huge trash pulls... and sacrificing health there is just a bad idea. Its a waste of MP on bosses and its a waste of a skill without Dark Arts because youre going to take a lot more damage than you need to.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

The only time you should be using Dark Passenger is on huge trash pulls... and sacrificing health there is just a bad idea. Its a waste of MP on bosses and its a waste of a skill without Dark Arts because youre going to take a lot more damage than you need to.

As the math earlier in this topic shows, dark passenger is more potency per MP than DA+SE (+150 for 884MP (dark Passenger) vs +140 for 1768MP(Soul Eater)) . It's a great use of MP on bosses, and ignoring it is a straight up dps loss.

[LalafellDown]

No problem playing/managing MP as Dark knight here.

[whiteblade89]

As a tank, having skills that cost hp is a little counterintuitive to the role of a tank. HP is your most important aspect, because staying alive is your job. It would fit the lore of a drk better considering their history, but overall I like managing mp more than having to cringe at using up hp, even if it is just a fraction of a loss. Now as an OT, there might be some possibilities there for sacrificing a bit of hp to either hit a bit harder, or maybe to give hp to the MT. That would make them a more versatile OT since that seems to be a complaint in the community. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on anything.

[SpookyGhost]

1. An extra piece of utility accessible while not tanking anything. Doesn't (and IMO shouldn't) need to be Reprisal, but something.

Agree w/ this, PLD also needs something besides the STR down on RoH (since who uses RoH unless they absolutely have to). I know everyone wants to get rid of Path and Eye, or nerf them to hell, but I think it'd be cooler if PLD/DRK both offered equivalents in OT utility but not mirrored copies. Path is a bit too cut and dry, though, hard to really equal "boss does 10% less damage".

2. A PINCH (I'm talking like, Shadeshift-sized) of extra physical mitigation.

Agree w/ this as well, though I also think that all 3 tanks should be equal on mitigation as putting a tank at a mitigation disadvantage compared to other tanks means that that tank can't do it's job as well as another, and there's really no sense in taking the less effective one over the more effective one. As long as a tank can survive an encounter reliably it's generally fine, but it's just weird that there's a disparity in types of damage tanks can mitigate (especially when WAR can mitigate both with IB, Thrill + Convo, and Vengeance).

Also, RE: Soul Eater, I really think you could get rid of the heal all together and give it something else. The heal barely does anything as is and fiddling with the numbers won't really make up for that unless the number you heal for goes insanely high (like, 2.0 IB numbers). Probably a good place to stick on some unique utility, imo. I guess the only real argument for keeping the healing is solo stuff, but... you only get the heal when in Grit so I dunno if it's even really used for that now. I know it's been brought up before about allowing DRK to get the self heal out of Grit as well, though I feel like that's an unnecessary buff that doesn't really fix anything.