"Don't Explain; Learn by Doing"

[Jpec07]

One thing I always try to do in dungeons and trials, especially when paired with new people, is to explain the mechanics of the fight for whoever might want to hear them. It's something I started doing when the folks in my FC started farming World of Darkness about a year ago for our respective Demon sets, because the bosses in that place like to eat uncoordinated raiders for breakfast.

Lately, too, I've been trying to help groups succeed at Final Steps of Faith, explaining the complex mechanics at the start of the fight--and when half of the group is new and has asked for that explanation, I'd expect people to be okay with a bit of explanation (especially for a fight that complex).

However, lately I've seen a resurgence of an attitude I haven't seen since I was farming WoD, where people are openly hostile towards people who try to explain the fight, and will pull before all of the mechanics have been described.

I endeavor to always be succinct in my explanations; in World of Darkness, I actually generated macros for each boss that would explain all of the essential mechanics in 40 seconds for every boss. But people were so opposed to even the idea of an explanation that they would spam those explanations away - even to the protest of people who'd asked for them.

In my most recent attempt, I got into it with someone who was trying to tell me that explanations didn't help, and the point he (and his FC mates) kept coming back to was that you learn from doing, not from reading an explanation.

So my question: is it worth explaining a fight to new people? Should I only limit it to key mechanics that can screw over the whole group? Or should I just not say anything at all?

[rblyell]

My static and I love learning by doing, we despise information being hand fed to us the first time in somewhere. That said, there's no reason to be hostile about information being given, especially if people ask for it. If you have folks asking, please continue to provide information! We could do with more folks willing to help others out, so kudos to you for taking the time to explain!

[Malicewolf]

It's a mindset that some people have, and honestly, I'm fine with them having that mindset so long as they actually LEARN from their mistakes. Too often have I seen those 'learn by doing' folks wipe from the SAME mechanic 10 times. That's when I get urked. It's one thing to want to learn yourself, it's another to force everyone else attempting to make it through to be at a standstill because you're too stubborn to get some help.

On top of this, I dislike when people force other's to not get an explanation. If that's your method, good for you. But that doesn't mean everyone likes trial by fire. If you don't wanna read, then don't. Hide your party chat while the explanations are going through. Or heck, just change which log you're looking at. It's not that hard to avoid seeing the chat. And if they are impatient, then that's on them. I'll gladly kick someone as soon as the chance arises if they are impatient and unperceptive to helping the group as a whole.

[Tint]

i like doing new fights blind. but however, explainations are fine if people want it.

but i think for the first try you should explain nothing. that leads often to a wall of text and nobody understands anything because they have not seen a single bit of the fight. when people have seen the mechanic you can explain it and then it is much more likely that people understand what you are trying to explain.

if someone puts a wall of text in the chat before a fight i don't care and just pull the boss. it doesn't matter because almost nobody can read all these, understand it, remember it when mechanic A, mechanic B, mechanic C... happens and then doing all the mechanics without failing.

[Jpec07]

if someone puts a wall of text in the chat before a fight i don't care and just pull the boss. it doesn't matter because almost nobody can read all these, understand it, remember it when mechanic A, mechanic B, mechanic C... happens and then doing all the mechanics without failing.

So you would put your own playstyle and impatience above the desire of some people to actually see an explanation, anticipate mechanics, and survive? Is it really worth the 2-3 minutes and probable wipe for you to head off an explanation like that?

The greatest irony is that usually, the people who rail against explanations are the ones who die first, and the people who asked for and presumably read them typically survive until those people's failures cascade to the whole group.

EDIT: I also really hope you're not pulling as a WHM. Not only is that rude to the people who wanted the explanation, but is also detrimental to group play, because you're taking damage you should have avoided, and are making the tanks' job hell for the first 30 seconds.

[Kerwin]

Are you ok with wasting people's valuable time? Don't take advice or learn about it by reading a few lines of text.

Are you ok with actually learning? Take at most 5 minutes to understand the info and take advice.

[Malicewolf]

I will admit, I'm one of those people that write up huge wall's of text with lots of details. But I will also say, whenever I do them, I've never had a group that's wiped more than twice. Sometimes you do infact need to see the mechanic to really understand, but it's not that hard to correlate what I said in my explanation to what happened in the fight.

"When you see a big flashy arrow AoE marker above a player, stack on A"
1st time, people didn't get it because it caught them off guard and they weren't near.
2nd time, oh yea, that's the big frickin flashy AoE marker he meant.

[StouterTaru]

Huge wall of text means nothing to me if I haven't seen a video of the fight. If I've seen a video of the fight, I don't need huge wall of text.

edit - I prefer to go in blind, and figure out from there

[Zojha]

Simple solution really: Ask if people would like an explanation and if one person wants them, you kindly as the others to tab the chat away or minimize the chat window while you explain for the person who wanted it. Then you give it a couple seconds so people can hide their chat and then start explaining.

That way, people who want to go in blind can do that and people who rather not can do that too. Win-win.

[Jpec07]

I'll admit I never thought of not explaining as a courtesy to people who want to go in completely blind. The hostility I face usually comes from the "GOOOOO" guy, or from the veteran and his friend who have already cleared this place a bunch and, because they don't personally see the value in explanation, think all attempts at describing mechanics are a huge waste of time.

When I ask if anyone wants an explanation, I've never had anyone new ask that I not explain. It's usually either met among new raiders with ambivalence or gratitude. It's only ever the people who've already done the fight who are opposed to explanation of any kind.