Dark knight

[Violette]

What is the basis for your metric? That more or less sounds like elitist rhetoric.

I'm not going to ask an amateur chef for advice on how to cook fish, when I could ask a chef of 30 years experience in seafood.

Sure the amateur MAY be right, but he's lucky.
The chef with 30 years experience will know far more about it, and will have the experience I can trust in.

Dungeons/24 man's are so mind-blowingly easy from the tanks perspectives that you won't learn much from it. Midas Normal is also pretty easy, so it's only when we get into ACTUAL end game content.

There's a reason most groups faceroll "dungeon roulette: extreme". There's a reason most groups take 1-2 tries to clear all 24 man raids. So the average player can have fun, clear and get through relatively unscathed. There is nothing wrong with that.

But Faust forced people to do DAMAGE. You couldn't clear Faust week 1 with only 190 and ravana weapons, by not using enochian. You cannot clear Hummelfaust without knowing your damage rotations. You cannot solo tank Hummelfaust if you don't know your ability rotations. You can clear Sohr Kai and Hullbreaker hard without using a single defensive cooldown.

Hullbreak/Sohr Kai/Mhachi does not force you to stance dance. To squeeze out dps. To know fights inside out and tailor your rotation to a fight.
And that's the mark of a good healer/dps/tank. The ability to adapt and do their job well.

So until you've gone through that, you've not tested yourself. You can practice on a dummy all you like, but you're not actually getting good.

So that's why clearing A5S is what I call the benchmark for knowing ANY class. And even that's pushing it. My friends group's scholar didn't know what indom did, in A7S.

So you can call me elitist, but so what? What's the basis for your metric?

[Mattelot]

In my professional position, I can assure you that years of experience do not automatically mean you're better than others. I disagree that if the "amateur" is right, then he's just lucky. Either way, that's nonsense.

You can try and justify why you believe what you believe by your experiences but that does not set the official benchmark. It would be no different than a person who has done far more than you have coming here telling you that you're not a real tank because you've not done as much as he has.

[Mattelot]

I've known people who have been carried through content and use the fact that they've completed it to condescend others. I will never forget back in FFXI when the Ballista Royale came about. One of my friends was the best PVP player on our server. His team of 3 consisted of him, his linkshell leader and the leader's friend who was bad. They won the tournament. They were awarded with their Stars Caps. The leader's friend would post on forums about how he was the best Warrior because he had is Stars Cap and would always chime in with pseudo-advice to better players. It was annoying until my friend finally chimed in and said "we would have still won even if you were AFK". Moral of the story, never use personal experience as a benchmark.

I never claimed the term "elitist" was my metric. I stated that your metric was justified by elitist rhetorc. My basis? The official definition.

[Violette]

In my professional position, I can assure you that years of experience do not automatically mean you're better than others. I disagree that if the "amateur" is right, then he's just lucky. Either way, that's nonsense.

You can try and justify why you believe what you believe by your experiences but that does not set the official benchmark. It would be no different than a person who has done far more than you have coming here telling you that you're not a real tank because you've not done as much as he has.

Didn't say it was the official one though. Never claimed it.

But hey, you do you. I'm not saying someone isn't a real tank, I'm saying they've not been forced to play the game and learn how it works. And as such, there's a high chance they're going to have a misinterpretation of the classes capabilities.

I mean, it's not like people bitch weekly about:
LD so BAD IT SUCKS ARGH
GOD I HAD DRK'S LACK OF SYNERGY
WAAA MP MANAGEMENT IS TOO HARD PLEASE

And that all these players are the one's who don't raid.

Of course, I'm sorry your friend had to carry a lazy person through a tournament. But if you can't use personal experience to gauge a person, what do you use?

A scrying crystal?

[Mattelot]

You didn't say in any form "in my opinion, unless you've..." You stated that "if they have not done this, they're not..."

I do not agree that all the players who say those things are the players who do not raid. It's just players not content with certain short-comings. Maybe you don't express your concerns but that's your business.

I did not say personal experience, I said years of experience. There is a difference. If you've raided the same raid for 3 years and the next guy has raided 3 raids for 1 year.... Does that make sense?

Anyway, you're getting confused and side-tracked. The bottom line is that you shouldn't dismiss somebody's ideas or concerns or project ad hominem because they do not fit your idea of what constitutes them being worthy of having an opinion.

[Violette]

You didn't say in any form "in my opinion, unless you've..." You stated that "if they have not done this, they're not..."

I do not agree that all the players who say those things are the players who do not raid. It's just players not content with certain short-comings. Maybe you don't express your concerns but that's your business.

I did not say personal experience, I said years of experience. There is a difference. If you've raided the same raid for 3 years and the next guy has raided 3 raids for 1 year.... Does that make sense?

Anyway, you're getting confused and side-tracked. The bottom line is that you shouldn't dismiss somebody's ideas or concerns or project ad hominem because they do not fit your idea of what constitutes them being worthy of having an opinion.

I'll just dismiss them for being stupid and lacking in evidence.

[MagiusNecros]

Back on topic. We've been through this dark dance before when it comes to DRK changes. I feel like the PvP changes are just testing the water for now and if the devs feel DRK is lacking they will address it.

The fact they decreased cooldown on DA prior to line up our evasion buffs previously is proof of that.

[Aurius]

I feel drk DPS isn't lacking at all. In our static I mt as drk and our ot is war. We both have our relics and (at least in my opinion) are knowledgeable in our jobs. With him going balls to the wall in a fight with no tank swap, I need two power slashes (really only one but I like the extra cushion) to never worry about aggro. My damage in real content that we farm (I'm still mt) is never far behind his. So in my opinion drk is fine, I welcome some more damage in PvP but pve is fine.

[Mattelot]

I'll just dismiss them for being stupid and lacking in evidence.

If you believe that people who do not live up to your expectations or do not possess the evidence that you feel is worthy, that's your opinion.

[Valkyriearia]

Sorry but your suggestion to buff darkside that insanely clearly shows you dont know how to play drk since it would become completely broken with a 25 or 30% dmg increase from darkside.

I do know how to play drk this my alt character and she is lvl 60 all jobs