3.3 AST adjustments

[giantslayer]

Helios = Medica = Succor = Noct Helios (300 potency)
Benefic II = Cure II = Adlo = Noct Benefic (650/600 potency)
Diurnal Helios = Medica II (600-700 potency HoT)
Diurnal Benefic = Regen (980-1050 potency HoT)

*Note that I am using the = sign but I really mean approximately equal (can't find that squiggly = sign on my keyboard).

What seems to have been overlooked is that Succor is Scholar's version of Medica and Adlo is Scholar's version of Cure II. Nocturnal AST having access to both other healers' versions of basically the same skill isn't really that useful. Diurnal has 4 distinct healing spells and Nocturnal has two flavors of 2 distinct healing spells (not counting Benefic 1).

[zuzu-bq]

What seems to have been overlooked is that Succor is Scholar's version of Medica and Adlo is Scholar's version of Cure II. Nocturnal AST having access to both other healers' versions of basically the same skill isn't really that useful. Diurnal has 4 distinct healing spells and Nocturnal has two flavors of 2 distinct healing spells (not counting Benefic 1).

Finally someone that understands! And yes, many don't open their eyes to see this as Nocturnal's advanges over SCH. Sadly, this isn't enough to make them better on raid scenario but I think they're in a good position at the moment. That is Noct AST's identity, wich is something that a lot of people say they lack. Well, it sure looks like by original design Aspected Helios was supposed to be a Succor variant, but I'm glad its something different now. This is truly the devs response on our feedbacks.

[DarkmoonVael]

Finally someone that understands! And yes, many don't open their eyes to see this as Nocturnal's advanges over SCH. Sadly, this isn't enough to make them better on raid scenario but I think they're in a good position at the moment. That is Noct AST's identity, wich is something that a lot of people say they lack. Well, it sure looks like by original design Aspected Helios was supposed to be a Succor variant, but I'm glad its something different now. This is truly the devs response on our feedbacks.

Indomnibility says hi to Helios, proceeds to laugh at it, then kicks it down the stairs.

[zuzu-bq]

Yeah, lets throw all the GCD comparison on the window by adding an OGCD to the equation. Thats how it works, right?

[DarkmoonVael]

Yeah, lets throw all the GCD comparison on the window by adding an OGCD to the equation. Thats how it works, right?

Yeah because we get to prove our biased point by putting arbitrary restrictions on what can and can not be compared. Because thats how it works right?

Helios = Medica = Succor = Noct Helios (300 potency)
Benefic II = Cure II = Adlo = Noct Benefic (650/600 potency)
Diurnal Helios = Medica II (600-700 potency HoT)
Diurnal Benefic = Regen (980-1050 potency HoT)

*Note that I am using the = sign but I really mean approximately equal (can't find that squiggly = sign on my keyboard).

What seems to have been overlooked is that Succor is Scholar's version of Medica and Adlo is Scholar's version of Cure II. Nocturnal AST having access to both other healers' versions of basically the same skill isn't really that useful. Diurnal has 4 distinct healing spells and Nocturnal has two flavors of 2 distinct healing spells (not counting Benefic 1).

Also this is a whole lot of nope.

Helios=Medica=/=succor=/= Noct Helios. If you try and use succor as a medica or helios, you are doing something so very very very very wrong. They dont have the same functionality. Succor is not there to heal people up after an aoe UNLESS it is combined with emergency tactics. Also how in the love of anything can helios=nocturnal helios? Are we actually talking about aspected helios here? More clarification please. Comparing raw potencies with shield+heal potency does not work as they dont have the same functionality.

Benefic II=Cure II = physik+embrace =/=adlo=/=noct benefic. Functionality of adlo and noct aspected benefic are not the same as cure II or benefic II. Also again, how on earth can Benefic II = Noct aspected Benefic? They are not used the same at all, ever........

The other two comparisons, yeah they work.

And where are the fairies abilites when factoring in all this? How can you compare SCH WHM and AST when the fairy isnt being factored in at all.

So you say Nocturnal AST having access to Helios and Noct Helios isnt that useful. How useful do you find succor and Indomnibility on SCH? I understand one is an oGCD heal, but its used to heal the same amount as Helios (not taking into account the 5% sect bonus).

[Katlyna]

Part of the solution is really simple. Remove cleric stance, and buff base healer damage to match. Cleric stance only serves to increase the gap between scholars and other heals, and adds unnecessary complication to healers. In PvP you would have to nerf healer damage some. But that's PvP. They've all ready concluded PvP has to have separate skill balancing.

[Eloah]

I haven't read every part of the thread, can't right now but I'll weight inthe issue Ast has. The biggest issue is how "most" people tend to play Ast, either as a replacement Whm or Sch and that isn't right. They are their own entity. The main issue with the shield form Noct was that they would replace Adlo regardless of strength. Though to be honest a Noct Ast shouldn't really be playing with a Sch. Anyway, i personally feel that aspected helios didnt need the buff since it was already on par with succor. Succor is Sch only real aoe heal, beside aetherflowed indom, but Ast has regular helios and at a lower MP cost. The best advise i can give is that Ast has 2 stances, everyone stanced danced with tanks, why not a healer? I always use diurnal for trash and switch to noct for bosses.

[DarkmoonVael]

Post-patch opinions:

Spread change is amazing.

Nocturnal Aspected Helios buff hasnt changed anything remotely significant with Nocturnal Astrologian.

Collective unconscious change, no comment really. So far not effecting how i am using this.

[technole]

Noct Aspected Helios change is nice so far, I've seen some situations where that "better than Succor" 120% HP buff was quite noticeable with Synastry buff. I'm sticking of taking AST over SCH with WHM in-content as much as possible to test more. Maybe will have more on Nidhogg EX soon.

Indomnibility says hi to Helios, proceeds to laugh at it, then kicks it down the stairs.

I love how someone always points to Scholar Indom like it's hand of god and that the comparison is that simple. It's not. OGCD, 30 secs, and 1 Aetherflow stack. Waiting on Aetherflow? Oh wait. You aren't getting a party up from the brink of death as easy as the other two healers can without more cooldown use. Emergency Tactics is more in-line what the comparison is, and oh look that has a cooldown too.

[DarkmoonVael]

Noct Aspected Helios change is nice so far, I've seen some situations where that "better than Succor" 120% HP buff was quite noticeable with Synastry buff. I'm sticking of taking AST over SCH with WHM in-content as much as possible to test more. Maybe will have more on Nidhogg EX soon.



I love how someone always points to Scholar Indom like it's hand of god and that the comparison is that simple. It's not. OGCD, 30 secs, and 1 Aetherflow stack. Waiting on Aetherflow? Oh wait. You aren't getting a party up from the brink of death as easy as the other two healers can without more cooldown use. Emergency Tactics is more in-line what the comparison is, and oh look that has a cooldown too.

Indom is probably the most powerful healer ability in game right now. Also when talking about about SCH and AST aoe healing comparisons, why would you not talk about indom?