3.3 AST adjustments

[giantslayer]

Helios = Medica = Succor = Noct Helios (300 potency)
Benefic II = Cure II = Adlo = Noct Benefic (650/600 potency)
Diurnal Helios = Medica II (600-700 potency HoT)
Diurnal Benefic = Regen (980-1050 potency HoT)

*Note that I am using the = sign but I really mean approximately equal (can't find that squiggly = sign on my keyboard).

What seems to have been overlooked is that Succor is Scholar's version of Medica and Adlo is Scholar's version of Cure II. Nocturnal AST having access to both other healers' versions of basically the same skill isn't really that useful. Diurnal has 4 distinct healing spells and Nocturnal has two flavors of 2 distinct healing spells (not counting Benefic 1).

[zuzu-bq]

What seems to have been overlooked is that Succor is Scholar's version of Medica and Adlo is Scholar's version of Cure II. Nocturnal AST having access to both other healers' versions of basically the same skill isn't really that useful. Diurnal has 4 distinct healing spells and Nocturnal has two flavors of 2 distinct healing spells (not counting Benefic 1).

Finally someone that understands! And yes, many don't open their eyes to see this as Nocturnal's advanges over SCH. Sadly, this isn't enough to make them better on raid scenario but I think they're in a good position at the moment. That is Noct AST's identity, wich is something that a lot of people say they lack. Well, it sure looks like by original design Aspected Helios was supposed to be a Succor variant, but I'm glad its something different now. This is truly the devs response on our feedbacks.

[DarkmoonVael]

Finally someone that understands! And yes, many don't open their eyes to see this as Nocturnal's advanges over SCH. Sadly, this isn't enough to make them better on raid scenario but I think they're in a good position at the moment. That is Noct AST's identity, wich is something that a lot of people say they lack. Well, it sure looks like by original design Aspected Helios was supposed to be a Succor variant, but I'm glad its something different now. This is truly the devs response on our feedbacks.

Indomnibility says hi to Helios, proceeds to laugh at it, then kicks it down the stairs.

[zuzu-bq]

Yeah, lets throw all the GCD comparison on the window by adding an OGCD to the equation. Thats how it works, right?

[DarkmoonVael]

Yeah, lets throw all the GCD comparison on the window by adding an OGCD to the equation. Thats how it works, right?

Yeah because we get to prove our biased point by putting arbitrary restrictions on what can and can not be compared. Because thats how it works right?

Helios = Medica = Succor = Noct Helios (300 potency)
Benefic II = Cure II = Adlo = Noct Benefic (650/600 potency)
Diurnal Helios = Medica II (600-700 potency HoT)
Diurnal Benefic = Regen (980-1050 potency HoT)

*Note that I am using the = sign but I really mean approximately equal (can't find that squiggly = sign on my keyboard).

What seems to have been overlooked is that Succor is Scholar's version of Medica and Adlo is Scholar's version of Cure II. Nocturnal AST having access to both other healers' versions of basically the same skill isn't really that useful. Diurnal has 4 distinct healing spells and Nocturnal has two flavors of 2 distinct healing spells (not counting Benefic 1).

Also this is a whole lot of nope.

Helios=Medica=/=succor=/= Noct Helios. If you try and use succor as a medica or helios, you are doing something so very very very very wrong. They dont have the same functionality. Succor is not there to heal people up after an aoe UNLESS it is combined with emergency tactics. Also how in the love of anything can helios=nocturnal helios? Are we actually talking about aspected helios here? More clarification please. Comparing raw potencies with shield+heal potency does not work as they dont have the same functionality.

Benefic II=Cure II = physik+embrace =/=adlo=/=noct benefic. Functionality of adlo and noct aspected benefic are not the same as cure II or benefic II. Also again, how on earth can Benefic II = Noct aspected Benefic? They are not used the same at all, ever........

The other two comparisons, yeah they work.

And where are the fairies abilites when factoring in all this? How can you compare SCH WHM and AST when the fairy isnt being factored in at all.

So you say Nocturnal AST having access to Helios and Noct Helios isnt that useful. How useful do you find succor and Indomnibility on SCH? I understand one is an oGCD heal, but its used to heal the same amount as Helios (not taking into account the 5% sect bonus).

[technole]

Noct Aspected Helios change is nice so far, I've seen some situations where that "better than Succor" 120% HP buff was quite noticeable with Synastry buff. I'm sticking of taking AST over SCH with WHM in-content as much as possible to test more. Maybe will have more on Nidhogg EX soon.

Indomnibility says hi to Helios, proceeds to laugh at it, then kicks it down the stairs.

I love how someone always points to Scholar Indom like it's hand of god and that the comparison is that simple. It's not. OGCD, 30 secs, and 1 Aetherflow stack. Waiting on Aetherflow? Oh wait. You aren't getting a party up from the brink of death as easy as the other two healers can without more cooldown use. Emergency Tactics is more in-line what the comparison is, and oh look that has a cooldown too.

[DarkmoonVael]

Noct Aspected Helios change is nice so far, I've seen some situations where that "better than Succor" 120% HP buff was quite noticeable with Synastry buff. I'm sticking of taking AST over SCH with WHM in-content as much as possible to test more. Maybe will have more on Nidhogg EX soon.



I love how someone always points to Scholar Indom like it's hand of god and that the comparison is that simple. It's not. OGCD, 30 secs, and 1 Aetherflow stack. Waiting on Aetherflow? Oh wait. You aren't getting a party up from the brink of death as easy as the other two healers can without more cooldown use. Emergency Tactics is more in-line what the comparison is, and oh look that has a cooldown too.

Indom is probably the most powerful healer ability in game right now. Also when talking about about SCH and AST aoe healing comparisons, why would you not talk about indom?

[Kerrigen]

Noct Aspected Helios change is nice so far, I've seen some situations where that "better than Succor" 120% HP buff was quite noticeable with Synastry buff. I'm sticking of taking AST over SCH with WHM in-content as much as possible to test more. Maybe will have more on Nidhogg EX soon.

I can't see Nocturnal AST being bad on Nidhogg Ex, but it's also easy enough that you can go with any healer composition and not care much.

There's no situation in the fight where spamming Helios (which is where Nocturnal AST has an edge over SCH in terms of healing) offers an advantage over SCH's CDs. I guess Akh Morn should be very comfortable to heal through with AST+WHM. Disable would beat Virus uptime for Ala Morns early on, I don't think it'd last long enough to cover Akh Morn though. There's also not a whole lot of running around in it, although I can see Lightspeed being useful for the High Jump/Geirskogul/Super Jump combo. Not sure how it'd go in terms of DPS, both WHM and SCH can have a lot of DPS uptime with Regen + fairy.

I'll try running it as Noct AST this week, although I really like having a fairy around and Indomitability definitely has a lot of value in this. My feeling is that Nocturnal AST would at worst be pretty decent at this fight.

[DarkmoonVael]

I can't see Nocturnal AST being bad on Nidhogg Ex, but it's also easy enough that you can go with any healer composition and not care much.

There's no situation in the fight where spamming Helios (which is where Nocturnal AST has an edge over SCH in terms of healing) offers an advantage over SCH's CDs. I guess Akh Morn should be very comfortable to heal through with AST+WHM. Disable would beat Virus uptime for Ala Morns early on, I don't think it'd last long enough to cover Akh Morn though. There's also not a whole lot of running around in it, although I can see Lightspeed being useful for the High Jump/Geirskogul/Super Jump combo. Not sure how it'd go in terms of DPS, both WHM and SCH can have a lot of DPS uptime with Regen + fairy.

I'll try running it as Noct AST this week, although I really like having a fairy around and Indomitability definitely has a lot of value in this. My feeling is that Nocturnal AST would at worst be pretty decent at this fight.

I have ran Nidhogg ex as SCH, Diurnal AST and nocturnal AST. Nocturnal is weak there when learning. Indomnibility is just too powerful there when learning this place. SCH spends a lot of the first few phases dps'ing whilst doing some much needed triage healing (indom and lustrate), something that a Nocturnal AST can not mimic at all. The difference in shield potency between N.AST and SCH doesnt really do anything in N.AST favour, as the significant factor for this fight is SCH oGCD heals, Fairy, SCH personal dps and deployed adlo at the correct times. N.AST in this fight really suffers.

Diurnal AST is powerful here as main healer, but have no personal experience on WHM in Nidhogg Ex for a comparsion (i am guessing there is no real difference between a WHM ans D.AST in this fight with the slight exception of D.AST's disable at key points).

Yet to get the clear, but consistantly getting to, and part way through, the final phase. Also this is through partys consisting of some people i know and PF the rest, my raid group doesn't seem to be going in until this weekend.

[Kerrigen]

SCH spends a lot of the first few phases dps'ing whilst doing some much needed triage healing (indom and lustrate), something that a Nocturnal AST can not mimic at all. The difference in shield potency between N.AST and SCH doesnt really do anything in N.AST favour, as the significant factor for this fight is SCH oGCD heals, Fairy, SCH personal dps

Yeah, that's how it's worked for me as a SCH, and I'm pretty sure we'd lose raid DPS with me as an N.AST rather than SCH, and the card buffs definitely wouldn't make up for it. There's also a relatively large amount of combined healer DPS that just couldn't happen without a fairy. But my point is, this fight isn't hard enough for it to really matter in the long run. Let's be honest here, learning with a Nocturnal AST will always be rougher than learning with a SCH due to the difference in oGCD healing alone, but Noct AST will do fine here when all is said and done, and I'd at least encourage people to try.

In my experience, WHM will have an edge over Diurnal AST with the last Akh Morn in the last phase due to being able to use Cure III to make it feel like it never even happened but that's it.