FFXIV: The State Of Raiding

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I dunno how the heck you can compare the grind for the Fenrir mount to savage raiding.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I dunno how the heck you can compare the grind for the Fenrir mount to savage raiding.

I assume it's because the event "nerfed" the MGP grind. Kinda silly if you ask me.

[Colt47]

@Bourne_Endeavor There's a lot more to gear in MMORPGs than necessity. I've stated it before in a previous posting, actually, but I'll gladly go over it again since it didn't seem to stick. People are not getting gear because it is necessary: They are getting that highest iLvL gear because it is the end of the vertical content ladder. Once people have the highest level iLvL gear they can either move on to other parts of the game or quit for a while and come back later without that little voice nagging them that they left something unfinished. People don't even need 220 gear to play the game, Bourne, they get it because the game is designed around increasing ones power level by getting better gear.


The point of the larger group tackling savage content is not about the gear. It's about letting people experience those harder and more complex modes in a larger group that has more forgiving conditions thanks to the larger group size. It lets people come back into the game later and still be able to find a group to do these modes, since they can join an oversized group to learn the fight safely, without wasting peoples time, then get to come along on the 8 man runs because they've seen the fight through.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

@Bourne_Endeavor There's a lot more to gear in MMORPGs than necessity. I've stated it before in a previous posting, actually, but I'll gladly go over it again since it didn't seem to stick. People are not getting gear because it is necessary: They are getting that highest iLvL gear because it is the end of the vertical content ladder. Once people have the highest level iLvL gear they can either move on to other parts of the game or quit for a while and come back later without that little voice nagging them that they left something unfinished. People don't even need 220 gear to play the game, Bourne, they get it because the game is designed around increasing ones power level by getting better gear.


The point of the larger group tackling savage content is not about the gear. It's about letting people experience those harder and more complex modes in a larger group that has more forgiving conditions thanks to the larger group size. It lets people come back into the game later and still be able to find a group to do these modes, since they can join an oversized group to learn the fight safely, without wasting peoples time, then get to come along on the 8 man runs because they've seen the fight through.

Indeed, there is. Content as a whole is created to serve multiple demographics, often will only varying degrees of overlap. Savage caters to those who desire a challenge above and beyond the normal in the same sense crafting is essentially a game within a game. You're now suggesting it be substantially nerfed or overhauled entirely just so people can easily collect gear they will never need nor have any practical reason to use. People wanting the best gear isn't a good excuse to reduce the difficulty just so they can brag. It's meant to be a reward for one subsection of the game. And if we're being honest, no MMO wants its userbase to "move on." They want you to continue playing to increase their bottom line. If everyone could clear Savage within a month, well, you might see a higher drop in subs waiting while they wait for the next raid cycle six months later.

If you aren't able to clear Savage, then your endgame is normal mode or something else. Now that isn't to say they couldn't scale down some of the mechanics to improve overall clear rates, but that's different than turning Savage into a pseudo-24 man raid.

Except they won't. As I have already said, Savage has a slew of very specific mechanics that necessitate you do specific things or it will cause a wipe. 16 people not only vastly reduces the difficulty of Savage-- thereby undoing its purpose to begin with -- you're now reliant on say, sixteen people to pass ice procs or not die at all throughout A7S. You will also push phases significantly, resulting in large portions of the mechanics being skipped. So there won't be any practicing. What will end up happening is raid groups still only wanting eight man statics or infighting because now you have sixteen people possibly messing up in lieu of eight.

Uhm. No. The world first A8S kill took not this longe because of missing skill. They did need the gear they've got till they finally finished it.

Elysium did up to A7S with crafted gear and Sephirot weapons. They had some ilvl 230 for Brute Justice. Point remains, you don't need this gear for anything except Savage.

[Colt47]

The point I'm making is that they are dividing up the end game community by mechanics learning. If everyone learns the mechanics and has been exposed to the same fight, they can try to win under more adverse conditions to improve what they can get. Being more inclusive in letting people see the fights will benefit everyone, including the people traditionally interested in doing savage. There's no point to exposing unique mechanics and patterns to a small portion of the populace, then have RF / PF groups.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The point I'm making is that they are dividing up the end game community by mechanics learning. If everyone learns the mechanics and has been exposed to the same fight, they can try to win under more adverse conditions to improve what they can get. Being more inclusive in letting people see the fights will benefit everyone, including the people traditionally interested in doing savage. There's no point to exposing unique mechanics and patterns to a small portion of the populace, then have RF / PF groups.

I'm aware of the intent, but am merely saying it wouldn't work in execution. Even trying atrocious DPS (600-800 range) would be the equivalent of two phenomenal MNKs. You will push phases to the point many mechanics will be skipped entirely unless the whole party agrees to hold back. You'll be hard pressed to find ten people willing to do that, let alone even more. Therefore, most wouldn't see the mechanics they need to practice. Furthermore, the group is now reliant on ten people (or more) doing things exactly right, and in this current tier of Savage, simply dying can cause a full party wipe. Regardless, this doesn't change the fundamental reason Savage exists is for a challenge. Adding more people completely defeats that purpose because the fights will get immensely easier. Some people's desire to have the best gear isn't an excuse either. There is no content whatsoever where you need ilvl 240. Like Savage, it only exists as a reward to Savage players. If they made the overhauls you're suggesting, we wouldn't even need ivl240 at all as ilvl 230 would be more than enough.

Basically, if you're willing to take on the hardest content in the game and deal with huge time investment it demands, then you'll be awarded a step above all other players. And you know what? I'm okay with that. They deserve the best gear. If I want it for myself, I'll find a group in game, on reddit or even use the Raid Finder they've now introduced.