Dealing with big undercutting

[PROBOUND]

This thread has become very entertaining! #CrafterConfessionals.

[LineageRazor]

That works better in theory then practice. More often than not those who undercut by a massive amount set the new price standard because other impatient people undercut them, be it out of spite, a desire to sell or both. I've had plenty of markets sell at fairly high prices consistently only to abruptly change because of one undercutter. So yes, undercutters can influence a market.

You've pretty much just restated exactly what I said. If there are enough people unloading onto the market at lower prices that your item does not sell, then your item was priced too high. There's too much supply for the demand and the so-called "undercutters" were simply pricing better than you were. That was my second example above.

If it's just one person undercutting, then their item will sell, and yours will too. The undercutter missed out on potential profit, and the loss was their mistake. That was my first example above.

In either case, the seller wasn't influencing the market so much as being swept up in it. Supply and demand at work. You can't keep a price frozen unless you have no competition at all.

[Jpec07]

As others have said, the best thing you can do to prevent undercutting from affecting you too much and to see consistent gains in Gil is to diversify.

Usually I'll wait it out if people are undercutting me. If the market gets flooded by trend hunters, it will usually bottom out in a week or so, and then bounce back in a week or two once those people have dumped their stagnant stock (as a note, if you have the buying capacity, it's good to build a reserve for yourself when they dump their stock, and artificially control the supply of the stock in question).

Prices will naturally decay over the course of a patch, but the markets are stable enough to function, I've found.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You've pretty much just restated exactly what I said. If there are enough people unloading onto the market at lower prices that your item does not sell, then your item was priced too high. There's too much supply for the demand and the so-called "undercutters" were simply pricing better than you were. That was my second example above.

If it's just one person undercutting, then their item will sell, and yours will too. The undercutter missed out on potential profit, and the loss was their mistake. That was my first example above.

In either case, the seller wasn't influencing the market so much as being swept up in it. Supply and demand at work. You can't keep a price frozen unless you have no competition at all.

If it were "priced too high," why did I sell multiple amounts within a decent span of time? I also typically follow the history of most recent price trends. This isn't putting up an item at a bloated price and an hour later someone else marked it a more reasonable amount. In fact, a lot of cases, I'll be undercutting someone else, albeit only by smaller increments. You are severely underestimating how undercutting can influence a market. For example, I sold Botanist gear for around 35k, and did so for almost a week. Someone came in and under cut me by more than half. That person was then undercut by someone else and they fought until the weapon dropped to 9k.

So no, we aren't saying the same thing. You're presuming reasonable priced items will always sell. They won't if you happen to get those massive undercutters who cut prices too low and keep putting up more items to keep their new market.

[LineageRazor]

If it were "priced too high," why did I sell multiple amounts within a decent span of time? I also typically follow the history of most recent price trends. This isn't putting up an item at a bloated price and an hour later someone else marked it a more reasonable amount. In fact, a lot of cases, I'll be undercutting someone else, albeit only by smaller increments. You are severely underestimating how undercutting can influence a market. For example, I sold Botanist gear for around 35k, and did so for almost a week. Someone came in and under cut me by more than half. That person was then undercut by someone else and they fought until the weapon dropped to 9k.

So no, we aren't saying the same thing. You're presuming reasonable priced items will always sell. They won't if you happen to get those massive undercutters who cut prices too low and keep putting up more items to keep their new market.

Your items sold, because until the "undercutters" recognized the market disparity, your prices were the only ones available.

I repeat: If the demand is there, your items will still sell at your higher price. If the demand is not there, you need to lower your price. If undercutters are flooding the market to a point where the market is not appealing to you, get out, wait for them to run dry, then return. That flooding is all part and parcel of supply and demand; they are greatly increasing supply, therefore a lower price is only natural.

If they are attempting to control a market, and they have the means to keep the market at their desired price, then you need to either compete with them on their terms or just not sell that product. If they're attempting to control a market by selling at a LOSS, they are fools; eventually they will run dry of product, and everyone they "drove out" of the market will come right back - this isn't real life, where joining a market has steep start-up costs, after all. If they're simply satisfied with lower profit margins, though, there's nothing to be done.

I'm not denying that a market isn't going to change until sellers adjust their prices. That's obvious - the buyer has little or no power to haggle or to purchase at any price except what is offered. However, that just means that folks who DO lower the prices at the right times are the smart ones. In your example, where the undercutters continuously replace their sold products with new ones so your higher-priced stuff never sells, the undercutters are making money hand over fist, and you aren't. They may not be making as much per unit as you do - but they're the ones making money, not you. Who is the wiser seller, the one who makes money, or the one who does not?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

This is a whole different argument. I know the whys and play the market just fine. The OP simply expressed his annoyance over people who undercut by a massive amount, which I agreed with. Your entire post denotes what I said earlier: someone who undercuts by upwards of half can control a market. They may be fools, but impatience certainly breeds such. You had previously insinuated otherwise.

[Dre777]

I don't run out, I am the exception. I will undercut and repost once sold almost immediately. I have no plans to stop. College graduate with a timely schedule. Best of luck. MB PvP for life! \o/

[Frowny]

I hate when it is an item that sells maybe once or twice a day and has kept to a trend yet someone proceeds to cut by a decent margin. Like come on, not like it will sell fast as say the mats.

[Gemina]

A golden rule I have is that the moment I get frustrated with an undercut, I chalk it up as a loss, and I no longer consider it marketable. Seesawing with a competitor with undercuts to the point it is no longer even profitable (don't forget to factor time along with gil) will only serve to frustrate time and time again. There are too many marketable items to seek out and sale to keep you smiling.

The MB is a dog-eat-dog world. There really is no etiquette to it. Trying to be courteous to the economy only seems to reduce your overall gains, so when someone undercuts by one gil, I only see a competitor trying to sale their stuff faster at nearly the same cost. My response as a buyer is I will buy the more expensive item to show the undercutter that reducing cost by 1 gil doesn't guarantee their stuff sells first. My response as a seller depends on the item, but typically I will undercut the item based off the average purchased price. If it gets undercut again, then it becomes clear that the competitor is willing to accept a loss that I am not. When the inventory space becomes more valuable than the item, off to an NPC it goes.

The only other time I can think of that I severely undercut is when cost of product is totally inflated from cost of mats, and also NPC availability. Again, you have to factor time as well, but I am far less likely to undercut an item that is available from an NPC and mats that take a good deal of time to acquire.

[BushWookie]

^ Your reasoning for buying the cheaper item is flawed because you have no way of knowing who undercut who first.