Live Letter XXX Discussion Thread

[MomomiMomi]

A level of difficulty that makes this casual content on par with ex primals or savage?

How is that any more difficult than "YOU LOSE!"? That's the highest difficulty possible right there. I sure as hell can't beat it. Nobody can.

[StouterTaru]

How is that any more difficult than "YOU LOSE!"? That's the highest difficulty possible right there. I sure as hell can't beat it. Nobody can.

Are you saying that making the fights require flawless play and teamwork or result in a wipe is a better system? Remember how quickly they nerfed Steps of Faith? And that wasn't even that hard; you could have 3 dead weight party members and still beat it.

Maps are a casual content where you can grab a couple friends and have fun screwing around and doing something a little different from normal instances. There's not enough stuff in the game like and, and it doesn't need to be turned into something that requires a static.

[MomomiMomi]

Are you saying that making the fights require flawless play and teamwork or result in a wipe is a better system? Remember how quickly they nerfed Steps of Faith? And that wasn't even that hard; you could have 3 dead weight party members and still beat it.

Maps are a casual content where you can grab a couple friends and have fun screwing around and doing something a little different from normal instances. There's not enough stuff in the game like and, and it doesn't need to be turned into something that requires a static.

If you chose the wrong door, it gets more difficult. That's it. It's easy until you pick a wrong door. Instead of failing, it gets harder. You might win. You'll probably lose. But you might win.

You can't beat it? Then you lose and end up exactly where the current system would have put you. Nothing is lost here.

[StouterTaru]

If you chose the wrong door, it gets more difficult. That's it. It's easy until you pick a wrong door. Instead of failing, it gets harder. You might win. You'll probably lose. But you might win.

You can't beat it? Then you lose and end up exactly where the current system would have put you. Nothing is lost here.

Except for having useful and rare rewards when you do get lucky.

However, my personal opinion is a puzzle would be best. That is actually a form of game and requires skill/thought to complete. It becoming something that you learn and becomes "faceroll" is no different than learning/mastering any game. I fail to see why mastering a puzzle is even in the same ballpark of poor game-design as an RNG system that decides if you get to move on or not.

Fun loses its fun when it's repetitive, and SE has yet to demonstrate any ability/willingness to create a puzzle that requires more than reading a 3 sentence guide.

[Kaurie]

Fun loses its fun when it's repetitive, and SE has yet to demonstrate any ability/willingness to create a puzzle that requires more than reading a 3 sentence guide.

True, but it being fun for the first few times is infinitely more fun than it being never fun and incredibly frustrating every time.

However, you are definitely right, I have yet to see SE demonstrate the ability to implement a fun, dynamic and engaging puzzle. I have seen quite a few decent ones in WoW, actually. It can be done, if they put their minds to it.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

True, but it being fun for the first few times is infinitely more fun than it being never fun and incredibly frustrating every time.

However, you are definitely right, I have yet to see SE demonstrate the ability to implement a fun, dynamic and engaging puzzle. I have seen quite a few decent ones in WoW, actually. It can be done, if they put their minds to it.

Until the player base throws a fit over it. Steps of Faith. Never forget.

[Kaurie]

Until the player base throws a fit over it. Steps of Faith. Never forget.

To be fair, Steps of Faith was neither a puzzle, nor fun =P

So you see them as a waste of time, yet you had fun during map-days with your FC. I'll go with the assumption that it's because the maps are a great thing for social FC events, where you're just hanging around, digging up treasure, killing some monsters. Doesn't really sound like you wasted your time, if you indirectly had fun, despite the fact that you don't consider maps fun.

As for your last sentence, are you trying to make it sound like you no longer have an issue with the RNG in the Aquapolis?
Sometimes you get something nice and rare [continuing on to the next room, getting more rewards], sometimes you don't. [wrong door, you stop getting rewards until the next time you enter]

I see Treasure maps in and of themselves as a waste of time, and would rather spend time doing other content with people. We had fun doing maps, but we also had fun doing other content. What was fun was doing stuff with friends - similarly to cleaning dishes with friends can be fun as you joke around. Cleaning dishes on its own is not a fun activity.

As for my last sentence, as mentioned, I do not have an issue with RNG in and of itself, I have an issue with how RNG is used in terms of the 50% chance that you choose the right door. It could even be made around speed - maybe if you finish the floor in X seconds, you have a 90% chance of choosing the right door, but if you finish in X+20, it's 80%. X+40 = 70% etc. *shrug*

[Nezerius]

However, you are definitely right, I have yet to see SE demonstrate the ability to implement a fun, dynamic and engaging puzzle. I have seen quite a few decent ones in WoW, actually. It can be done, if they put their minds to it.

Current discussion about the Aquapolis aside, I'm curious if you can list some of these decent puzzles from WoW?

I've played that game for years, up until the SoO content drought made me quit, and again after realizing that WoD was garbage on every front except raiding, and I can't recall any decent puzzles.

[Kaurie]

Current discussion about the Aquapolis aside, I'm curious if you can list some of these decent puzzles from WoW?

I've played that game for years, up until the SoO content drought made me quit, and again after realizing that WoD was garbage on every front except raiding, and I can't recall any decent puzzles.

Um I don't know the game well enough really to name locations lol - I just leveled up a Priest to 100 (haven't played in 6years previously to that) about a month ago. That said there were some with statues that you had to turn to tether to each other and things like that. In all honesty, I didn't really record them or devote to memory, I just remember leveling and think "hey, this is a fun little puzzle! I wish FFXIV did stuff like this."

Here are a few vids
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxJ9M_RZ0G4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlAP4l0DLSU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqZx3ppCEVY

They're not amazing, but it's a nice little break from the usual

[Nezerius]

None of which would change with some of the proposed changes, except that it would make it a more interesting way of achieving the same goal.

In fact, my proposed changes would make it more random. But it'd be interesting randomness and not pass or fail.

Or they could just keep it as it is. They never changed the map system in a major way, they have no reason to change a feature that's built on that system.

If you chose the wrong door, it gets more difficult. That's it. It's easy until you pick a wrong door. Instead of failing, it gets harder. You might win. You'll probably lose. But you might win.

You can't beat it? Then you lose and end up exactly where the current system would have put you. Nothing is lost here.

The Aquapolis is designed for light parties (4 players), this means your suggested change would require them to make the wrong rooms more difficult while still allowing light parties to clear them.
Result? People will simply do them as a full party to ease the difficulty to the point where it'll be easy to clear all the rooms, even the wrong ones.
They also can't just limit the Aquapolis to 4 players, since you can do the maps with more than 4 players.