[suggestion] Bring back skillchains/magic bursts

[jmp]

No theres no need to send me any encrypted files with secrets. Just share it here with everyone, forums are where most people go to find out game mechanics that cannot be found in databases. I'm sure others would appreciate what you've done.

I care about being in my actual linkshell. We did not speak with a developer, we didn't ask for some god to send us infos by email, we did not dat-mine. We played. We gave our time doing nothing but making experiments, got a few people in pt and went to mobs. We tried out our ideas and while 90% were just crap a few of those did actually work somehow. If you think BR is not working it's not because of me not sharing what I know. Probably it's SE fault wanting us to discover things with almost no clue (that I like), could be your fault not spending time testing things, I'd assume it's my fault not sharing what we found out.

I would surely like to know if I were in you, but can you really blame me?

This is really the last thing I'll say about it because I fell like this is coming to a flame. I prefer to be called troll than being kicked from my ls, but since I don't like being called so I guess I'll just avoid any discussion about this. I'll still answer if anyone will care about what's the weather here in italy.

[CatchaFire420]

I like people's attempt to convey the 'unspoken truths' about a system that while still in its infancy drives discussion of elitism vs people looking for the FUN we expect. Now the elite LS or perceived elite consider this to be a matter of their ingenuity piggy backed on the BR system they find useful for taking down NM's.

Truth be told they are correct, but what i think is more important to consider is if the elite LS are claiming to have taken down a NM is 7 minutes flat, then a re-structure is in order. Game balance has taken a back seat to elitism at the sake of everything being to easy, thus less 'fun'. Whether SE intended this system to bring down an NM in 7 minutes is anyone's guess.

But I would contend that this is the fundamental flaw of the system: under lvl 40 mobs die too quickly to make any use of the BR other than practice for later NM's. At lvl 50, if a LS is taking down a NM in 7 minutes, what is the fun or the challenge in that? I was under the impression that back in the day FF11 NM's commanded more respect than a fight that last as long as some leve quests, even less. This is the current imbalance that we have uncovered.

One side of the argument depends on the 'perceived skill' of individuals in their own sense of accomplishment balanced at the expense of most of us that desire the intrinsic fun garnered from the outcome.

Though I agree with elite LS's argument that they have 'mastered' the art of BR, but is this what the BR was intended for? To make everything so easy, we have no reason to challenge anything SE puts in our laps.

The bottom line is this: The BR system has been uncovered to be overpowered and thus is in need of some balance. With cross class abilities also being too powerful we find ourselves avoiding the contention that what is good for the elite is not necessarily good for the overall health of the community.

As an intellectual, I think critically, but I am also a gamer, and I pay for a game to be enjoyable for all the nuances that give me a reason to appreciate its originality. In the spirit of fun, I stand with those that despite being labeled as uninformed, hardcore gamers need to step back and remember your need for accolades is equally important to the rest of us saying we want stuff to be fun when we do it.

SE, your BR is good in principle, but you have made things too easy and less fun. From what I read in these forums the word 'grind' has become self-evident to all of the things that while good in execution provides no 'fun' for the rest of us.

Though I understand the power of the system, does that discredit my expectation that when I initiate an 8 man BR, I'm rewarded with some lackluster afterthought that the only fun I got out of it was killing an already weak NM in 7 minutes?

Bring back fun, create amazing animations as a reward to fulfill my need to be awed, i mean if i wanted lackluster, I'd walk out my RL door to the status quo. Grind is word that has destroyed any expectations we can have fun, just think about it....

[Honz]

Maybe I wasn't clear when I first mentioned it, but taking Buffalo down in 7 mins is not impressive if I only I could fraps my runs I can prove to you that its nothing special.

People claim to have secrets or learned something that no one else had only because those who already had didn't make a big deal of it and post on a forum about how they know best etc.

[jmp]

I like people's attempt to convey the 'unspoken truths' about a system that while still in its infancy drives discussion of elitism vs people looking for the FUN we expect. Now the elite LS or perceived elite consider this to be a matter of their ingenuity piggy backed on the BR system they find useful for taking down NM's.

Truth be told they are correct, but what i think is more important to consider is if the elite LS are claiming to have taken down a NM is 7 minutes flat, then a re-structure is in order. Game balance has taken a back seat to elitism at the sake of everything being to easy, thus less 'fun'. Whether SE intended this system to bring down an NM in 7 minutes is anyone's guess.

But I would contend that this is the fundamental flaw of the system: under lvl 40 mobs die too quickly to make any use of the BR other than practice for later NM's. At lvl 50, if a LS is taking down a NM in 7 minutes, what is the fun or the challenge in that? I was under the impression that back in the day FF11 NM's commanded more respect than a fight that last as long as some leve quests, even less. This is the current imbalance that we have uncovered.

One side of the argument depends on the 'perceived skill' of individuals in their own sense of accomplishment balanced at the expense of most of us that desire the intrinsic fun garnered from the outcome.

Though I agree with elite LS's argument that they have 'mastered' the art of BR, but is this what the BR was intended for? To make everything so easy, we have no reason to challenge anything SE puts in our laps.

The bottom line is this: The BR system has been uncovered to be overpowered and thus is in need of some balance. With cross class abilities also being too powerful we find ourselves avoiding the contention that what is good for the elite is not necessarily good for the overall health of the community.

As an intellectual, I think critically, but I am also a gamer, and I pay for a game to be enjoyable for all the nuances that give me a reason to appreciate its originality. In the spirit of fun, I stand with those that despite being labeled as uninformed, hardcore gamers need to step back and remember your need for accolades is equally important to the rest of us saying we want stuff to be fun when we do it.

SE, your BR is good in principle, but you have made things too easy and less fun. From what I read in these forums the word 'grind' has become self-evident to all of the things that while good in execution provides no 'fun' for the rest of us.

Though I understand the power of the system, does that discredit my expectation that when I initiate an 8 man BR, I'm rewarded with some lackluster afterthought that the only fun I got out of it was killing an already weak NM in 7 minutes?

Bring back fun, create amazing animations as a reward to fulfill my need to be awed, i mean if i wanted lackluster, I'd walk out my RL door to the status quo. Grind is word that has destroyed any expectations we can have fun, just think about it....

Couldn't agree more. We need more challenging content. At the current state BR or not every nm can be taken down easily.

[Kimahri]

And how is an auto attack helping? You still woudln't be able to do anything, it would be just a dot... really challenging :O big improvement.




o.O is that what I said? REALLY?? Do you really think someone would find BR great because of this???
What I meant is that SE didn't give any valuable info about BR, so we have a system with a great versatility and a great potential but we don't know what's the best way to use it, SO we have to make tests and find out how they're working. I didn't mean it is something good, they MUST give us more info (though I had a great time testing, but it's just because of my ls mates).

For instance, one thing I love about BR and about the fact that you have to wait for the others in order to perform your action is that it makes different strategies valuable for different occasions, in exemple you want the "WS buff" BR to be performed by everyone during NM fights to deal massive demage and in this occasions it won't take too much time since every member of the party should be trained on what he has to do; on leves or while grinding you don't want everyone to join the BR, you would wait too much time and it wouldn't be worth it, it's much better to have continuous "def down" and "TP debuff" BR of 2-3 people going on during the whole fight.

And I'm not saying they are perfect the way they are now, I agree sometimes it takes way too much time to perform a well working BR, so maybe lowering the number of partecipants from 8 to 6 would help; also I'd love to see different types of BR, maybe with elemental affinity like SC, and a combo-like system would be something amazing (though I think would be pretty difficult to develop in a mmo) but still I love the core of the system and I think it's much better then SC.

I honestly think that if SE gave us a tutorial, a guide or just more infos on how BR is working people would love them, the main issue of this system is the total lack of communication.

I didn't get past reading a few sentences of this dudes rebuttal. How is auto-attack going to help? Oh I don't know.....Maybe because that way you're still dealing damage while waiting for the person who has to start it? Before you start nagging about your topics, why don't you take the time to consider what that means. "Hmmm.....Is it better to auto-attack while being hit or to do absolutely nothing while being hit and wait for the leader?" I would think that this is a no-brainer yet it somehow elude's you yet again.

Before you go off about how nobody knows how BR's work yet, let me just say something. I'm all for the BR system to stay. The only thing I have against it is that it's not helping me coordinate my actions with that of the others as I would of hoped. It doesn't have a scrap. Right now all we have is to slap on a certain action when the BR comes on and wait. Where is the fun in that? "Oh, man! I was the key player in that!" Eh? At least with a skillchain it required tactics, timing, & cooperation. Not to mention when you couple that with the ability to MB afterwards.

Please from now on don't come on this thread saying, "You don't know what you're talking about." when clearly you don't either. A lot of people in here that I've read posts about aren't wanting back SC exactly like it was in FFXI, but to take some of the core principles from it and incorporate it into the current system. (Me being one of these people.)

[Alcide]

I didn't get past reading a few sentences of this dudes rebuttal. How is auto-attack going to help? Oh I don't know.....Maybe because that way you're still dealing damage while waiting for the person who has to start it? Before you start nagging about your topics, why don't you take the time to consider what that means. "Hmmm.....Is it better to auto-attack while being hit or to do absolutely nothing while being hit and wait for the leader?" I would think that this is a no-brainer yet it somehow elude's you yet again.

Before you go off about how nobody knows how BR's work yet, let me just say something. I'm all for the BR system to stay. The only thing I have against it is that it's not helping me coordinate my actions with that of the others as I would of hoped. It doesn't have a scrap. Right now all we have is to slap on a certain action when the BR comes on and wait. Where is the fun in that? "Oh, man! I was the key player in that!" Eh? At least with a skillchain it required tactics, timing, & cooperation. Not to mention when you couple that with the ability to MB afterwards.

Please from now on don't come on this thread saying, "You don't know what you're talking about." when clearly you don't either. A lot of people in here that I've read posts about aren't wanting back SC exactly like it was in FFXI, but to take some of the core principles from it and incorporate it into the current system. (Me being one of these people.)

...and they call me troll...

So having an auto attack will make the system better? really? Because I don't know what's you idea of auto attack, but for me it's a dot, you still won't be able to do anything, you won't be able to provoke the mob if you're a tanker on BR, you won't be able to heal someone if you're a mage on BR, your character will just deal a dot...
Uhm... but since most of the people agree that BR are op can you tell me what's the difference in dealing a let's say a 20hp dot for 10 seconds and dealing a massive damage after 10 seconds? o.O but most of all I could understend (but still be against) letting people do whatever they want after stacking the ability, but AUTO ATTACK??

Since you came so arrogant I really want to know how doing nothing in a system where it seems the main problem is that you can't do anything is helping.

However I highly suggest you to spend a couple of minutes reading my posts, because i didn't just say "you don't know anything", I gave suggestions about how to use them in different occasions, I gave hints on how to understend them better, I sayed what I think it's not working well in them and I gave suggestions on how to improve them...

And if anybody keeps saying "Bhaaaaa scrap BR I don't want to have to throw in a random skill and wait for the others!!! I want the old SC back!!" I'll still say that he's dumb and that he doesn't know anything about BR.
I really don't know why people think they can come here, say whatever they like and claim the whole community agrees with them. When I say that people don't know BR I don't mean it with the same arrogance, I want people to get to understand them and then make criticism, because some of the things that people are asking for are already in the system.


EDIT: something more about tactics, timing, cooperation and key skills that proves how little you know:

You know you can deal more then 1 debuff with a single BR? It doesn't even have to be a full BR, so it's pretty quick to perform and every skill has to be in a certain position in order to make it happen, every skill is important and you have to pay attention to what your comrades are doing, it requires a lot of cooperation.
More about tactics: if you want a part of the NM to be incapacitated in only one BR the incapacitating skills have to be buffed as much as possible; in order to do that they have to be the last skills in the BR, but the previous skills have to land for sure or it will be useless; plus you want the def down BR to be active on the mob, but if random people join that BR they won't have the time to buff; so you want those that are at the end of the BR to perform a quick def down BR, meanwhile all of the others use accuracy+ and attack+ buff, once that's done they start the BR and those closing start to buff themselves too and then they have to be ready to join as soon as their turn comes so thet everyone's buff is still active when the BR is released. It's all about timing and cooperation.
If you get rid of the stuck aspect everyone will have the time to buff and all of these tactics won't have any sense anymore, and then it will be a "throw in whatever you want, whenever you want" system, how can it be better?

But most of all you forget this:

What? That you can jump into a BR during a BR to get dmg boost as well? Therefore have a unlimited amount of people do a BR? Thats not a big secret bro lots of people on my server already know.

This thing gives the chance to everyone, even the healers and the tanker, to join BR, still being able to do everything while they're waiting if thy have a good timing and if there's enough cooperation in the party. (though I have to disagree with Honz, really a few people are aware of this feature, otherwise this thread wouldn't even exist coz it solves almost all of the issues that people have with BR)

But again I want to be clear, I don't think BR system is perfect, but it has an awesome core that's open to tons of possibilities and improvements (for instance if something has to be taken from SC I would love elemental BR, though I really find hard to believe they aren't already implemented, we have to do more tests).

[Konsentrate]

I love BR. Just add more.

[Alcide]

blah blah blah

I'm really impressed by the amount of bullshit you wrote on a singular post...

I gave suggestions, I tried to explain how BR is working so that people would be more comfortable with that and stop saying to scrap it (and if you bothered to read everything in this thread, wich I did from the beginning, you would know people are actually asking for it).

Yeah. I don't mind BR just wish it was more engaging than picking my ability and waiting. I do not see how you, Alcide, are basically saying, "Well. If you're good enough, you don't have to wait." over the problem everyone is facing over being locked out until the BR is completed. What about those who aren't, "Good enough?" I don't see a problem with an auto-attack feature implemented back while you wait for the BR.

I didn't get past reading a few sentences of this dudes rebuttal. How is auto-attack going to help? Oh I don't know.....Maybe because that way you're still dealing damage while waiting for the person who has to start it? Before you start nagging about your topics, why don't you take the time to consider what that means. "Hmmm.....Is it better to auto-attack while being hit or to do absolutely nothing while being hit and wait for the leader?" I would think that this is a no-brainer yet it somehow elude's you yet again.

You should spend some times reading what you wrote too, the only thing you said is to add an auto attack feature, and I said it's totally useless if the purpose is to improve BR, if you post something else i would be glad to discuss that too.
If you think my input to this thread is nothing then I guess you should delete you're account too...

Oh and I called you troll coz I didn't want to say you're a douche, but if you prefer this word i have no problem with it.

[jmp]

blah blah blah

I'm really impressed by the amount of bullshit you wrote on a singular post...

LOL

However the topic was the suggestion to... [put title here]

[Shikyo]

While I tried hard to use and enjoy Battle Regimes, I find their implementation rather convoluted and cumbersome. The level of steps required is too high, and in the end lag doesn't help.

I would suggest bringing back skillchains from FFXI.

Mind you, I'm not one of those that advocates turning FFXIV into FFXI-2, but when you make a sequel porting over certain staples of the previous game isn't a bad thing, is it?
I think skillchains are one of those staples.

Their usage and execution was much more intuitive and immediate than Battle Regimes, they didn't require additional cumbersome steps, and they simply were the best balance possible between fun, simplicity and complexity.

carefull you'll get the ffxi haters banging down your door lol... i agree ws chains would be a great addition to this game... come assclowns rain the "you just want a ffxi-2 game" on me i dont give a f... take a hard look at this game it needs to seek some advise from big bro. this car has brought a new coat of shiny paint to the race, but big bro had what it took to win under the hood..