[suggestion] Bring back skillchains/magic bursts

[jmp]

Noooo don't do it D: I meant what he said is actually fine, still better then throwing in everything, but I know there's far more, I was there with Zabusa and the others when we started testing :P

Alci didn't guess who I am? I'm always there, soothing your pain

[Alcide]

Alci didn't guess who I am? I'm always there, soothing your pain

You damn evil dwarf >.>

[jmp]

You damn evil dwarf >.>

Yes, it's me. However to get back in-topic the current system fits with fast-paced battles. Starting a BR you are sure skills will be there at the right moment. It can create dead times waiting for people to stack their attack, but a skillchain back in ff11 could fail just because people used their ws too soon or too late. It's sure animations would be cool, but I'm sticking with the "know the actual system before saying it sucks".

I can be a troll. Or I can be in a ls that takes down the roaming buffalo in 7 minutes.

EDIT:
Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqLnMxEn0Zc
It shows that BR can be done quite fast (max 10 seconds for 8 people stacking ws) but doesn't reveal any tactic (it was done back when we knew little about nm).

[Linnear]

I am a little confused about a couple of the details being discused on this thread. I have seen some discussion about how SCs in XI would not transfer over well in this game enviornemnt because people would need to stop acitons to not "mess" with the sc or MB. I admite that in less skilled parties this was true in XI but an SC only meant 6 seconds of down time between first ws and landing the MB, (3 seconds between each ws and 3 seconds for MB under ideal timeing). so basically you lose 6 seconds of no WS. I also admit in places like Einherjar most poeople just spammed ws, but that does not mean it was the most optimal solution either. While parsing, we used to set up micro ws groups, 3 melee and 2 mages per. under thoes circumstances, (gear depending) these groups could combo every 10 seconds or so. With spell timers and such in XI it was not optimal to do this, but it was possible given certain circumstances. Either way, it was proven that just ws at random was not the best way to kill things, if it was, AV and PW would of died much sooner, (Still have yet to see a serious attemt at either that didn't involve exploits), anyway another arguement.

There was an arguement here that said that SCs can't work in fast pased large parties such as the ones that FFXIV is suporting, but as I said previously this was not necessarly true for FFXI either. Just beucase the general community didn't use them does not mean they are useless or do not work well, but it does give insight into how FUN they were. if people prefered to just spam their own abilities on CD then wait for WS then that gives insight into player preverences, not necessarly for the most optimized solution.

The same can be said for BR though, you have 10 seconds of down time between 8 players, better ratio than 6s for 3p but they are proven to be usefull and powerfull yet the general community still does not use them. Personally I can see how they can be used in higher content and see their usefullness via the testimony from the people on this thread but as someone who is going through the first hundred hours of game play, I.E. crafting and leveling to 40+ the system is neither fun nor worth figuring out. Here is my personal problem with the system, if your not going to make it usefull pre 40 take it out of the game, make it a level 40 skill, or, something you have to work towards with points or a quest. Make me want to use it, give me a reason to have it on my bars or make a maccro for. I personally love micro managing and optimizing gear/abilities for games, it is one of the reasons my scholar had 5 different sets for various occasions, but I am not compelled to even touch the regiment system yet. I tried it, it worked, I acknowledged the usefullness of it and I will lilky never touch it again till NMS, it breaks the flow of combat, causes tention between players, and generally annoyes the hell out of me, much like the system in LOTRO did. It is also the same reason I play 2s in SC2 and not solo, yes solo is more balanced and such but 2s is more fun for me, remember we are playing games here, they are supposed to be FUN. If you have a system that only a small % of your community uses or finds fun, then you need to take a closer look at it and try to fix it.

I am not saying that SCs is better the BR or vise versa, but I have not seen a solid arguement why SCs can't work or why BRs are fun. Square needs to look at what the community is doing, you can have the most ballanced and usefull system in the world but if most players don't use it or find it fun then your tailering your game for a small % of your clientel and I for one expect more from SE. Both SCs and BRs work well and provide benifits, but what we are missing in both systems as can be seen by player preferences in both games is that neither of them are sufficienty FUN to be used, if they were, people would actually use them.

I have seen ranged spam arrow helix over and over again, not because it is the most damaging ability but it looks like a lot of fun, if arrow helix+spirit dart allowed both characters to return mana through the BR system that might prove more interesting then just debuffing the mob. Dancer in FFXI was a great class with great debuffs, but more people didn't use them because there were considered less fun, don't get me wrong I loved my DNC and it was my second played char, but BRs feel like dancer skills and that is not where player interests seem to lie.

The thing I want to see in this discussion is how to we make this system more FUN, if it is fun people will figure it out and use it. Otherwise all the handholding and toturials and buffing of the system won't change player habits.

I want to see stunnable abilities that will whipe you if you don't stun them, I want to see Airship style battles, I want to see Prommy style farming of items to help kill mobs, I want to see damage races like the bombs in Prommy, I want to see time trials like Nyzul. I do not want to see any more encounters where all you have to do is take the enemys HP to zero before yours does. MMOs are beyond that and I want SE to take FFXIV there.

On a smaller note, LS leaders should be less worried about strategies getting out on BRs, not like this game has any serious content right now anyway. Until you have to cordinate movements and actions and stuns and get a system that is more immersive and involved like WoW, all your doing it shacking you wang in a little pond trying to make it look like your making big ripples.

[Delirium]

I could care less about BRs, SCs and MBs. Give me Dissidia fighting without the flying. That's fast pace fighting and it actually involves skill. I feel they messed up this game from the start, there is nothing progressive about FF14 except for the job system. I see a game like TERA taking over the gaming industry with their true real time battle system that involves timed dodges and aiming. Those of you who enjoy this sort of stock still simple format of giving and receiving actions that could be done blind folded have fun. I'll be waiting for the next generation of MMO that's already being developed. I need an action format MMO that if your not paying attention you get rick rolled.

[jmp]

I could care less about BRs, SCs and MBs. Give me Dissidia fighting without the flying. That's fast pace fighting and it actually involves skill. I feel they messed up this game from the start, there is nothing progressive about FF14 except for the job system. I see a game like TERA taking over the gaming industry with their true real time battle system that involves timed dodges and aiming. Those of you who enjoy this sort of stock still simple format of giving and receiving actions that could be done blind folded have fun. I'll be waiting for the next generation of MMO that's already being developed. I need an action format MMO that if your not paying attention you get rick rolled.

Yay! 300ms ping ftw

[Honz]

Yeah... case closed I see nothing here worth any value or worth watching. You say you have secrets but all I see is BS. Sorry to tell you this man but you have nothing that most linkshells across all servers already know of.

[jmp]

Yeah... case closed I see nothing here worth any value or worth watching. You say you have secrets but all I see is BS. Sorry to tell you this man but you have nothing that most linkshells across all servers already know of.

Never said we know anything none else does. I don't know what you do, maybe we know the same things, maybe not. Still I haven't found any reference about it. Again, call me a troll. But we take Dodore down with max 3 br (that probably many LS do) and our record on Great Buffalo is like 7 minutes. And as far as I know on Lindblum only 2-3 ls can achieve this. Again, if you know anything else worth sharing for the sake of knowledge you are free to do it. Maybe I'll learn something, but try and think that maybe there is something you could have missed.
I could send you a file with everything we know. Encrypted. And I could give you the key after SE uncovers our "secrets". Is it really worth it? Your call.

I see many high ranks in your char stats and I'm glad to be answering to someone who played long enough to know how the fights actually work. For real.

[Honz]

No theres no need to send me any encrypted files with secrets. Just share it here with everyone, forums are where most people go to find out game mechanics that cannot be found in databases. I'm sure others would appreciate what you've done.

[javid]

I have read most of the intelligent opinionated responses. Though I am in disagreement with most of them, I am elated that ppl know how to express themselves without their arguments being laced with over arching statements--"EVERYONE does/doesn't..." or "This will NEVER...". Again I say thank you.

For this game I prefer the BR not because SC didn't work in XI or would not transfer well to XIV. Back in XI I was a strong proponent of SC. So much so I uses to printout the SC chart and form parties based on where my current members fell in the chart and the mobs affinity. Also I would use the Allakhazam SC generator when I had a hard time finding the combos off the chart. But the learning curve for this system is easier. SE has a page dedicated to its description step by step. In this game most times when I start a grinding party, one of the first things I explain is BR. We then practice once or twice (hopefully only twice...) then we have at it. Having the system be easy to implement is key to potentially being utilized by the majority (BUT, I would be very happy if they left the stronger BRs for the more skilled groups).

However for the masses I hope they introduce more dazzling animations that vary base on the ability stacked and the number of them stacked. Also I hope they differentiate the combos more to incorporation more debuff effects (so far we have 6 ruin,trauma,despair,constraint,same class ws, ws to ws). In XI SCs that were fun to look at where Darkness, Fragmentation and Fusion. Hopefully SE will add more animations [to a lot of stuff].

Now on to the topic of Advance BR, as some of you have alluded. I will detail a way to cut seconds (yes plural) off BR. Just to explain one to you. If you're familiar with stacking for BR you will soon figure that some skill animations cause the skill to take longer to appear next to the mob's name then others. However the order in which the respective skills where stacked will be respected. Example if I have a conj and a mrd performing a BR, and the Conj initialize with Fire II followed by MRD Maim. If the Mrd waits until the Fire II stamina bar appears next to the mob's name before she stacks, she would have waited the complete cast time of Fire II. However if the Mrd only waits until the chat log says the Conj is starting the BR then she stacks Maim, she will override the normal cast time of Fire II all because the stack order will be respected. Again I explain by paying close attention to the chat log you can cut off seconds from the wait time because the order will be respected. Here is a BR I've done with party that takes maybe 6 seconds when everyone is attentive: Light shot-->Skull Sunder--->Skewer-->Fire-->scourge--->Victimize. The two most attentive members in this order has to be Scourge stacker and Victimize stacker; they are the two that cause seconds to be saved off the BR.

There are other advance tricks dealing with BR stamina reset, but I'll let you figure those out by yourself ^^.