Can we have option to VK a player because they are below a reasonable skill level?

[Seraphix2407]

I just need to say it in here. I have 2 FC members being IRL sisters being super ''casual'' in my fc, and they both come from my country, even if they can speak english it still would be fine. However, they are super ''casual'' and I was helping them with some pony farm run unsynced, now I know the dps doesn't matter much, overgear, lvl etc etc list goes on. I saw they did soo much weird stuf in there I wanted to ask them if they wanted to improve and they were all eager. I gave her dervy DRg rotation that I also use because he used to be in my static and FC and one of the coolest guys ever. Now, i gave her the rotation and she typed it down... 10 min later she tried and holy shit.. 90% nailed the opener, was after 10 min?! WTF??!?!!?!?!?!? Ok this person doesn't even do alex normal, they just sit around talk to people usually but this huge improvement in few min? Please, I just really gotta brag about that, players like that makes me enjoy the game more because it simply puts joy to other groups when they play well and not being ignorant and ignore they were bad in terms of rotation or how they play. Now all what matter is they do it in fights and so on, but improved that fast on a dummy? Hell yeah for that. Wish I met more people who was soooooooooooo positive to this and not only that, seing that they were freaking happy made me smil more. Thumb up for those players!!!

Things like this doesn't only bright my day but other players who are like me, love when people love to improve and get better! So if you are one of those players, thank you so much and we appreciate people who are willing to learn no matter how long it takes, because it different to person to person, so keep doing it and you will mostlikely meet people who enjoy being with you in party. Cheers.

[MeiUshu]

.s.

you exactly proved my point. Your sisters IRL, they know you and trust you, I would have too probably, but not coming from anyone and all, to me words from an unknow that comes to me and tell me you are bad and you should play so and so or even if polite, are only words and I dont generally listen, simply because is just not something that is part of who I am, BUT I also dont leave and insult players because they play the way they want to play or dont know how to play....comes down to responsability, when you click accept to enter a group in DF that is (PF is a whole other thing), you accept whatever comes your way or..you leave on your accord and not throw out the others...I call that being mature.

To whoever said that we MUST call out who plays *bad*, in virtue of what woudl you do so ? who are you to do so ? who gave you this power ? you just think that you have all the rights just because you can play or supposedly play, again what does the next person knows about you that you are soooo grand good and godly to allow yourself to call another bad ? again nothing forces you and nobody asks you to...you just decided to take that up with yourself and do it, even Mentors dont know most of the time how a class works and just because they have a crow they think they can call out others and often then not with stupid advices.

I would rather suggest to people to concentrate on themselves and if they dont like something just leave the party.

As I have said multilple times I dont agree either with the penalty as it punishes the people that, like me, leave on their accord if they dont like it but then there is so much abuse by again imature people that well sometimes between the devil and his son you have to choose one of the two.

[Seraphix2407]

..

Ugh massive typo and bad English from my side. What I meant was, there are 2 girls (not being my IRL sisters) but those 2 are, sisters IRL. Just need to state that. So to me they are complete strangers besides being in my fc.

But to reply to your post, I agree, when you accept joining a duty finder, you accepted joining a random group, great or bad players or just simply decent people. However, I think you forget the point main point being in a group; Teamplay. There is no I in teamplay. I don't expect super great people in duty finder, not at all. What I do expect is common sense. As you probably know and I've seen you post active on these forums and probably a long time player, you know how the game works right? Every class has a rotation to follow, now the rotation doesn't mean you have to follow it step by step in fight or trash adds, but rather adjust to the situation. Doing freeze everytime you need MP isn't part of the rotation, the skill itself it's just there to save your ass if anything.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect perfect rotations in duty finders, I don't do them either but I do my best atleast and I know when I do my best I'm doing a goddamn good job at it. I know many try their best too, however, some people aren't. There are serval reasons for that:

Unknown to rotations, aware of what the skills do to mobs or to yourself
Never checked guides or even bothered checking how the class itself work
Don't give a damn and just flat out being selfish doing their own little thing in their little world, thinking it's acceptable to play however they want
Refuses to take help (large community problem right here)

As Erika stated earlier in this thread and some other people. Many play the game to relax from work, studies and stress or whatever they have IRl. There are 3/7/23 people in those group who do the same. Does that mean we have to adjust to their level of ''fun''? Nope and nope. Is fine to have fun but if you wanna do weird things, do that on your own and not in groups. It's not fun when you stall people or slow people on purpose because you have ''fun''. ''Fun'' is also a excuse for many people who have no clue what they are doing too.

I will ask you MeiUshu, since you don't tell people off if they are doing something super strange like being icemage. You do expert roulette as healer or tank. You have 2 BLM's in the group, one being icemage. Now the other guy sees this guy doing this icemage rotation, and he only do it because the first guy does it and to see what hes actually doing. So throughout the run he does fire 3>blizzard 3>fire 3>freeze. Problem is you don't know if this guy troll or not, but let's asume he doesn't and he have fun doing this rotation throughout the dungeon. Would you be fine with it? I mean they have fun and you accepted the fact you can meet 2 of the same people. Or 1 just simply copycat the icemage and then say he has fun, but you have no clue it's troll or not. Would this be fine for you? Before you would ask me the same question: No, because I would find it selfish, even if I did click the button there is so much one should accept and be naive for.
I think in the end, whoever joines duty finder, expects people to have somewhat common sense or manners at all. For certain I do, because it's a group content. I would give a rats ass if he was doing it by themselves. But simply keep 3 other people ''hostage'' is a bit too far in my honest opinion.

[Khemorex]

snip

honestly ur obsession with trying to educate people in this thread and others is starting to get a bit out of control :P yes im well aware that theres trolls and people who have no clue about team play.
I can totally understand u why its fun to you to play with people on ur skill lvl ^^ but u need also to understand that some people never played a game before or an mmo :P
But also u cant seem to understand when ur overdoing it and when u need to stop ^^ Not everyone likes speed runs :P , u need to calm down a bit and take a step back ^^

[Teraluna]

Lets just take a step back a little

Everyone's different, in all walks of life. Some pick things up immediately, others take longer. Heck that's if they have similar tastes in the first place

Some people do like speed runs in dungeons/raids, always have done. Sometimes (or maybe all times) it's better to do this with players you know or do it with your guild.

I think that if you go into a purely pug group expecting a speed run, you are open to rng You may get lucky, you may not.
Sure you can feel a bit disappointed if it's not happening, but that's the situation with pug groups. They can vary pretty wildly, but they are what they are. Always been this way in mmo's over many years.

Personally I'd much rather take the time to help out struggling players in groups - maybe this is just because of the old school approach of a long serving mmo player.

There where times I wanted to do a quick run. I'd built up a good group of friends through guilds that could do these.

[Archaell]

Lets just take a step back a little

Everyone's different, in all walks of life. Some pick things up immediately, others take longer. Heck that's if they have similar tastes in the first place

Some people do like speed runs in dungeons/raids, always have done. Sometimes (or maybe all times) it's better to do this with players you know or do it with your guild.

Exactly! Everyone is different and that is good, what isn't good tho is that there is only one Duty Finder.

There isn't much that can be done about changing the way players play, but there are ways of changing the game!

Personally I don't believe that all the players should be forced to play together. Imagine that one player wants to get the duty done, another one is watching Netflix, third one wants to speed run and the fourth one wants to roleplay there - disaster ahead.

Usually when people are not satisfied with the lack of matchmaking in DF they are told to use PF.

The question is - Why can't DF have filters?

Just put there few check boxes, maybe even special vote kicks for each "ruleset", and allow players of similar mindset to play together. It would not fix all the problems, but it would be much better than the current totally random situation.

If two players can't stand one another you don't force them to play together, you put them in different groups.

[Lunavi]

Exactly! Everyone is different and that is good, what isn't good tho is that there is only one Duty Finder.

There isn't much that can be done about changing the way players play, but there are ways of changing the game!

Personally I don't believe that all the players should be forced to play together. Imagine that one player wants to get the duty done, another one is watching Netflix, third one wants to speed run and the fourth one wants to roleplay there - disaster ahead.

Usually when people are not satisfied with the lack of matchmaking in DF they are told to use PF.

The question is - Why can't DF have filters?

Just put there few check boxes, maybe even special vote kicks for each "ruleset", and allow players of similar mindset to play together. It would not fix all the problems, but it would be much better than the current totally random situation.

If two players can't stand one another you don't force them to play together, you put them in different groups.

But you don't have to play with everyone, there is PF for people who can't stand people who doesn't hold up to their pace. You can even create your own dungeon grind group if you want to... What many seem to not understand is that when you sign on for DF there is a (HUGE) chance that you will end up with bad players. That happens, and when it does you can either leave and eat the punishment, or vote abandon. Even daily roulette can from what I rememer be done in a premade nowadays so there is no reason for people who can't stand bad people running DF over PF.

[Teraluna]

Good points from people.

I seem to recall a couple of options in other mmo's where players could give descriptions of what they where after when using the lfg tool.
I think it's Aion where you can not only put the instance you want, but enough typing space to add something more.
Sometimes players used this to put a stake on specific advanced loot (ha!), or in this case how they wanted to run the dungeon.
Here we go:
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2.../AionLFG01.jpg

I'm sure another mmo also allowed something similar, but cannot drag the name from history at the moment - need a speed run for coffee.

[Seraphix2407]

....

Where do I try to educate people? Where do I say I NEED speed runs. If you want, you can see me stream everyday and everytime I don't get a speed run, I don't really care. I don't excpect speed runs each time when I enter a dungeon or having double casters so it goes quicker, far from that. I never even implied of having people needing to be on my ''skill level''. I'm not great I just find myself with just decent skill, which is the common sense of playing. Don't get me wrong, not trying to attack you, but before you say things I never said you better have a reason for it.

There is a BIG difference playing an icemage and doing somewhat a decent way of playing. What I'm trying to say is, if you gonna keep play icemage, do you think its optimal and somewhat respectful towards the group you are in? Highly doubt it, because as you said, you are well aware there are trolls and some doesn't have a clue how to teamplay. However being an icemage or ignore combos isn't just about teamplay, it's more about thinking about the rest in the group, rather than being selfish about it. But yes I'm waiting till you find where I say I need speedruns or try to educate people how to play perfect, until then, have a good one!

Edit: Before you gonna reply, as long a person has common sense, NO need to be perfect in dungeons and whatsoever, but when you play at a certain lvl which is almost like trolling and you still go around thinking it's fine, which I find totally wrong. If was part of a group and I knew I was bad for them, I wouldn't bother, this is excactly what many in this thread have mentioned, the lack of respect from players. How excactly are you respecting another player if you gonna do your own little thing and ignore it's wrong? This isn't excactly less of asshole move than people talking down on people, just saying.

[MeiUshu]

[QUOTE=Seraphix2407;3703819][B]QUOTE]

I can safely say I have never ever told a player to change their playstyle because I dont like how they play, at most I have asked them for a specific reason for a specific boss if they could not not use a specific skill ,if they dont want to no problem, life goes on as usual.

And I can safely tell you straight that I have never thrown out a player for not playing how everybody think it should be played, I have kicked players for insulting others that is true, and I even left parties because I felt the kick was uncalled for, more often then I can say. I went through The Vault wiht a healer that had no job class quests done from Lvl 50 onwards none of them, we tried up to the end of the dungeon and we didnt make it of course. I have been with parties where the tank had lvl gears 10 when the dungeon is lvl 40, I have played with healers that didnt have swiftcast and were lvl 60 and admitted NOT to want it as they had no use of it and was a useless skill. I have played with tanks that never used CDs, with healers that never healed, with DPS that were standing there and watching others doing the work, I have never kicked them, my answer has always been NO, other then disconnect and insult obviously.

If highly skilled players lvl 60 wants to tank when I am lvl 30, and rip aggro off me because constantly purposedly doing all they can for forbidding a player to play, so be it, I will go DPS and let them tank, because well why to fight ? right ? strangely enough I have been kicked for not fighting for aggro when they all wanted speed runs in a low level roulette where clearly I wasnt able to compete with them.

So yeah, I can look at myself in a Mirror and tell you straight thatyes if I can do it, others can too, but the thing is most dont want to, they have that sense of I am Superior thing