The cooldown reset on A8s is unbearable

[LucentLagombi]

Hey everyone,

The dev. team is aware that there is a large demand for cooldowns to reset after a wipe. During the Niconico Chokaigi event held in Japan recently, Yoshi-P mentioned that while there are some concerns about the possibility of players abusing the cooldown reset, that they are actively looking into this.

We'll be sure to follow-up once we have more information.

Hallelujah

[Cnidarian]

Wait...so you're saying the abuse is doing SSS with double buffs? LOLOLOLOLOLOL....

...lol

Sadly, it appears reading comprehension fails you horribly. Let me state it again in an easier way for you to understand.

Kit-Kat: SSS already resets cooldowns

You: Exactly. If there was a possible abuse out of this people would have already done it, and would still do it thru SSS if it were implemented in raids.

Me: They are abusing it on SSS, thus the potential for abuse in raids exists.

So yea, having the potential to use some of your burst dps/healing/mitigation buffs twice during the start of a fight can impact a clear or a wipe at sub 5%.

[KogaDrake]

You would think it would not be posible to map hack or do many of the other things that have cropped up in the lifespan of FFXIV. The point is coding is so complex and so many things could possibly go wrong that would not be expected that they want to very very thoroughly test such a change to ensure nothing strange crops up that could somehow under conditions X Y Z cause all CDs to reset when it was not a wipe. Things like this that were not originally worked into the code are more complex to add later and make sure nothing goes wierd, and the worst thing would be to put it in and have some way to reset them that could be found and abused like crazy before it was known to SE and stopped. That is what they dont want, and what we all should not want to happen either.

lets be honest, if your just learning mechanics, you dont need all CDs ready when pulling anyways, and by the time your hitting enrage and know all the mechanics, the wait isnt that long unless there is a long CD that you use right at the end of the fight and plan to use again in the first bit of the fight (which is not common)

[Jpec07]

Sadly, it appears reading comprehension fails you horribly. Let me state it again in an easier way for you to understand.

Kit-Kat: SSS already resets cooldowns

You: Exactly. If there was a possible abuse out of this people would have already done it, and would still do it thru SSS if it were implemented in raids.

Me: They are abusing it on SSS, thus the potential for abuse in raids exists.

So yea, having the potential to use some of your burst dps/healing/mitigation buffs twice during the start of a fight can impact a clear or a wipe at sub 5%.

But...aren't buffs canceled when you die?

The request is asking that cooldown timers be reset on wipe. When you die, your buffs expire, but the cooldown remains intact. Trials and fights like A8 don't let you release until the party is out of combat, so resetting the cooldown timer on release can't be used to double up, nor let players die just to get their buffs back. In fact, with boss lockouts, I don't see how resetting cooldowns on release in instanced content could be exploited.

[PLitz]

The "abuse" that I think they're referring to isn't so much double-stacking CDs or anything exploitative like that. I think it's more along the lines of groups intentionally wiping because they screwed up their opener, or because they had an early accidental death, or heck even if someone didn't get as many critical hits as they wanted to in the first 20 seconds. The reason we want it is to not have to wait after popping cooldowns right before a wipe, they just have to find a way to set it up so that people can't just abort every time they have a bad pull.

[Eidolon]

Me: They are abusing it on SSS, thus the potential for abuse in raids exists.

So yea, having the potential to use some of your burst dps/healing/mitigation buffs twice during the start of a fight can impact a clear or a wipe at sub 5%.

I am so confused.

How are people abusing it on SSS?

1) When you exit SSS, all your CD's are put to their maximum.
2) When you enter SSS, they're all set to 0 so you can use them all in your opener. the amount of time it takes to exit, and re-enter SSS, is obviously long enough that at best you might get ONE, maybe TWO gcd's in? if you're LUCKY.

So where are you getting this 'abuse' of SSS from?

[Cnidarian]

But...aren't buffs canceled when you die?

The request is asking that cooldown timers be reset on wipe. When you die, your buffs expire, but the cooldown remains intact. Trials and fights like A8 don't let you release until the party is out of combat, so resetting the cooldown timer on release can't be used to double up, nor let players die just to get their buffs back. In fact, with boss lockouts, I don't see how resetting cooldowns on release in instanced content could be exploited.

I'll make the same statement to you as I did someone else, read the entire thread where people have come up with hypothetical situations that a boss reset =/= a full party wipe. Others have developed solutions to those hypothetical situations, but you can't just say that it's a simple fix because all you need to do is this when it comes to programming.

I am so confused.

How are people abusing it on SSS?

1) When you exit SSS, all your CD's are put to their maximum.
2) When you enter SSS, they're all set to 0 so you can use them all in your opener. the amount of time it takes to exit, and re-enter SSS, is obviously long enough that at best you might get ONE, maybe TWO gcd's in? if you're LUCKY.

So where are you getting this 'abuse' of SSS from?

There were videos posted when SSS was first released that showed people with dps cooldowns active and off cooldown to be reused again during the encounter. Abilities such as Raging Strikes which on a normal SSS attempt you can only use once due to it's cooldown period were able to be used a second time. This could have been hotfixed to be no longer possible, but since I never bothered attempting this myself (as I and others have stated, doing this only cheats yourself) I can't say for certain if it is still possible. As for how they did it, I wouldn't know either as the videos started with the initiation of the SSS combat and did not show how they managed to have the buffs running prior to initiation with the skills themselves off cooldown and available for use.

[Eidolon]

There were videos posted when SSS was first released that showed people with dps cooldowns active and off cooldown to be reused again during the encounter. Abilities such as Raging Strikes which on a normal SSS attempt you can only use once due to it's cooldown period were able to be used a second time. This could have been hotfixed to be no longer possible, but since I never bothered doing this myself (as I and others have stated, doing this only cheats yourself) I can't say for certain if it is still possible. As for how they did it, I would know either as the videos started with the initiation of the SSS combat and did not show how they managed to have the buffs running prior to initiation with the skills themselves off cooldown and available for use.

I mean. Heres the thing, I checked it myself (Because hey, doing research) - and like I said. AT BEST, you can get 1, maybe TWO attacks in if you play it right, with the buff up. It's really not as broken as you're trying to play it out to be. Matter of fact, most the time - those very same buffs (raging strikes) would've been popped before the first hit anyways. So no, it's really not broken to have that, and even if you COULD get a whole 1-2 extra whopping attacks in, you'd likely be screwing up your own rotation doing it, and poorly training yourself for a real encounter.

And you somehow think that people will abuse this in a raid scenario? No. First of all, when you DIE, you lose all your buffs. So that's already out the window. As for what you said - the idea of resetting it based upon the Boss itself resetting, that is indeed available to abuse if they chose to do it that way.

But like you said, read the whole thread. There were counter-suggestions that said it should only happen during the Fade to Black Reset screen, which is ONLY possible in the scenario of a full party wipe. This means things like a5S sadly wouldn't have the benefit, but honestly - I think SE should avoid annoying turns like A1/A5 (Where you have to fight a striking dummy miniboss before an actual boss.)

[Cnidarian]

But like you said, read the whole thread. There were counter-suggestions that said it should only happen during the Fade to Black Reset screen, which is ONLY possible in the scenario of a full party wipe. This means things like a5S sadly wouldn't have the benefit, but honestly - I think SE should avoid annoying turns like A1/A5 (Where you have to fight a striking dummy miniboss before an actual boss.)

Thank you for showing your ability to cherry pick what you want to read. Try reading the first part of my post in response to Jpec07 in which I state that others have come up with solutions to those hypothetical situations. In fact, let me make it easier for you and I'll just re-post it here.

"I'll make the same statement to you as I did someone else, read the entire thread where people have come up with hypothetical situations that a boss reset =/= a full party wipe. Others have developed solutions to those hypothetical situations, but you can't just say that it's a simple fix because all you need to do is this when it comes to programming."

Just spouting off methods to prevent the type of abuse I'm explaining doesn't mean that it is easy to implement or that it is even possible to implement based on the current code. It might be a situation where if they want to do it in one of these methods, it would require the code to be rewritten from scratch. It could also mean that it is just a simple coding addition that is very easy to implement. The end result is, we just don't know the current coding situation so spouting off how easy it is to prevent abuse is meaningless.

Lastly, it doesn't matter if you get 1-2 extra attacks in by abusing the system, the fact that the system can be abused needs to be addressed before implementing changes (another thing I've mentioned at least once already in this thread). Another form of abuse that I personally haven't thought of yet is outlined inPLitz's post below:

The "abuse" that I think they're referring to isn't so much double-stacking CDs or anything exploitative like that. I think it's more along the lines of groups intentionally wiping because they screwed up their opener, or because they had an early accidental death, or heck even if someone didn't get as many critical hits as they wanted to in the first 20 seconds. The reason we want it is to not have to wait after popping cooldowns right before a wipe, they just have to find a way to set it up so that people can't just abort every time they have a bad pull.

Edit - Used the correct quote at the end, originally had the wrong person quoted.

[Airget]

The "abuse" that I think they're referring to isn't so much double-stacking CDs or anything exploitative like that. I think it's more along the lines of groups intentionally wiping because they screwed up their opener, or because they had an early accidental death, or heck even if someone didn't get as many critical hits as they wanted to in the first 20 seconds. The reason we want it is to not have to wait after popping cooldowns right before a wipe, they just have to find a way to set it up so that people can't just abort every time they have a bad pull.

Honestly is a good point, the ability to reset all cooldowns upon wipes would just encourage the mentality of dying until they get the ideal situation they are aiming for.