Skill Tree

[Zephyrin]

I dont like skill trees.

Better use that pvp-skill-upgrade-system for pve-skills and everything is fine : )

I like the idea.

Doesn't matter. Community wouldn't accept it.

Theory crafters would calculate the "optimal" build for each class. Then all PFs would be like "Farm party, need WHM with X build" etc.


So no, you wouldn't be able to play how you want unless you were doing casual content.

that's exactly what will happen.

Also we can see the "Jobs system" like a different way to play : a tank, a healer or a dps. Dont forget you can play all Jobs on one character

[xJimmehx]

This would work and i would like it actually. Quite a lot too. I always wanted to have a sword dps like pally without a shield or dark knight. Though it would have to be like our current skill sets, (you cant choose to have any skills or not other than the few cross class skills) Its as others have pointed out. If a pally dps is able to use a different set of skills than the other pally dps, they will kick the one with the weaker build. So in order for the to work youd need only one build of each. Tank, DPS, and Healer mode for each class. No real customization being what role and skill set you use. But thats basically just playing another class with the same outfit/name.. I still would like it though. 2 hand dark knight with the ability to sacrifice hp to deal even more damage. Dark arts could sacrifice hp instead of mp in DPS mode. o.O This seems like it would take a really long time to achieve though. So many classes already and to make all of them and balance all of them again, not once, but 2 times? Thats unrealistic. Cool idea. It a shame, but it wont happen.

[Zoy]

Is this a Wow thread because that's what it sounds likes, ret pallys, shadow priest, and at the 1 point in time OP druids

[Radacci]

Snip.

I'd go for a skill tree, where you can mix, but for GLD you'd put the stronger def buffs at the end of the tree - so even if you go mostly offensive, you can't pick up the heavy tank skills, too; it's kind of the cross-class system, where you can add a few skills from other classes, to add variety to your class; with jobs it's more restricted because jobs are more role streamlined.


As you said they could add new jobs instead, but they would have to do what they did with AST/DRK/MCH - remove the use of base class - and it feels a bit pointless to add 3 different PLD for 3 different roles, when you could have 1 job do all 3, with a skill tree system. SCH/SMN could just be 2 different trees for example, instead of separate jobs; they share base class anyway - they kind of are already a partial skill tree system. Swapping between skill tree specs, shouldn't be a bigger hassle then swapping job stone, or redo your pvp points.
Also with 3 different jobs instead of skill trees, you'd need a different gear set for each job - it just ends up bloating your armory. Instead of having 3 different sets, you have 1.
Well sure, but people already try to remove people with low performance, so i don't think much would change. But you could decide to lower your damage a bit, to add more utility. DRG don't have much utility, except Litany (which is awesome) suppose with a skill tree system, you spend a little less points on offense build, to pick up battle litany, which would boost your entire pt dps, no one would complain about that.
For simplicity, they made it so MNK healing is based on str, for example, so even if they had a healer tree, it would use their normal str stat. So i think this would alleviate the problem with having full armory chest, and people demanding more slots.

Is this a Wow thread because that's what it sounds likes, ret pallys, shadow priest, and at the 1 point in time OP druids

yes and no, WoW is hardly the only game with skill trees.
we can take FF10 as an example, where you can make any char into any role, but they are still a bit different.
Or FF7 where you can do the same with materia.
or 13 where you can swap roles on the fly.

[Zoy]

I'm not saying it won't work I played alot of ret and holy pally, I did boomkin druid but mainly for epic flight gathering, did demo and disc lock. Some games can pull it off really good not sure if this 1 could

[Radacci]

I'm not saying it won't work I played alot of ret and holy pally, I did boomkin druid but mainly for epic flight gathering, did demo and disc lock. Some games can pull it off really good not sure if this 1 could

i think they did a good job of balancing this game, so i think it could work, but yah it would require quite big changes. It's not like i expect it to happen, but it would be really nice if they did - it would probably fix a bunch of issues, and cause some new ones

[ArikDimas]

I feel like it would probably be better for them to start small with the idea of skill trees. Instead of letting them branch out our jobs into other rolls, start off with having skill trees augment our existing skills, just an example for MCH, we could get something to make it so hypercharge applies the physical and magical damage bonus regardless of the turret out, or choose to buff the damage bonus of the turret. Then after that is put in and they have time to work on it a bit, they can try going into skill trees that branch into different roles.

[Belhi]

Firstly, the reason against it are accessibility and balance issues. Skill trees make balance much more challenging and tend to make build effective characters more difficult. Almost always you end up requiring third party sites to be sure your build is actually any good.

Secondly, there are quite a few jobs that wouldn't really work in multiple roles. BLM for example makes no sense as a healer or a tank. Lorewise they are the literal glass cannon. Likewise, SCH wouldn't really work as a dps cause it would be too similar to SMN or Tank because its a guy with a book.

Finally, Yoshi P has talked about this before and has said rather than try to make two builds for a single Job he would prefer to just add another Job with its own themes and Aesthetics as the bulk of the work making a Job vs making two versions of the same Job wouldn't be that much different.

[Awful]

I'm not saying it won't work I played alot of ret and holy pally, I did boomkin druid but mainly for epic flight gathering, did demo and disc lock. Some games can pull it off really good not sure if this 1 could

It might be a little tough with this game but it'd be interesting then what we got, hell we don't even have traits from 50-60 just 5 new skills for each class which I guess in WoW's standards is a new talent point each lvl. But even WoW has simplified their talent trees you simply click the one you want and every 15 lvls you get a talent point FF14 could even have that or even traits for 50-60 the class system is fine where it's at but it could be better and the community knows that. Gone are the days where you were SM/Ruin in WoW, Assassination/combat/hemo to get cold blood, preparation, and hemo, I know I miss it but i'd just play WoW if that were the case but it's not the same game anymore.

[Radacci]

Also i'd like to add, that the only way we can get the traditional BLU and RDM, is with skill tree, otherwise they can only possibly be designed into one role, which ruins the point of those jobs as multi-role.
Or well, the SCH/SMN path, and have 2-3 different jobs...but then it's not really BLU or RDM.

Firstly, the reason against it are accessibility and balance issues. Skill trees make balance much more challenging and tend to make build effective characters more difficult. Almost always you end up requiring third party sites to be sure your build is actually any good.

Secondly, there are quite a few jobs that wouldn't really work in multiple roles. BLM for example makes no sense as a healer or a tank. Lorewise they are the literal glass cannon. Likewise, SCH wouldn't really work as a dps cause it would be too similar to SMN or Tank because its a guy with a book.

Finally, Yoshi P has talked about this before and has said rather than try to make two builds for a single Job he would prefer to just add another Job with its own themes and Aesthetics as the bulk of the work making a Job vs making two versions of the same Job wouldn't be that much different.

not really, you just stick a bunch of skills in each tree, and we end up with what we have now, except for DPS-GLD you'll get atk/utility buffs, instead of def buffs, and non-aggro combo. as a heal-pld, you'll get heals and utility skills. It doesn't make it less complicated than adding a new job (which ofc requires balancing too) as long as they design each tree as a stand-alone job, then there's really no issue.
I'm thinking something along the line of how PVP skills are now - you cap your char to 60, and you can fill out all the skills in a tree. If we put current DRG into a single tree, then it's as simple as giving DRG 27 skill points by lv 60, and then you filled out DRG tree, and you're done - With 3 trees, it's the same, except you get to pick which role to spend your points.

Ya, BLM is rather difficult to do anything with. They have their fire/ice swap, and exclusive dps theme.
I was thinking of merging GEO/BLM/WHM into one job,and have them as separate trees, but the chance of that happening is sub zero ^^
SCH is quite heavy on using damage reduction spells, and fairy that can reduce damage too. it's not really about what wep you use, but taking hits, and aggro.

Ya i went over that in prev post. I think it's much easier to have a tree system take care of that, to reduce bloated armory chest - you'd need 1 wep/job, and most DPS jobs don't share gear. It's already difficult to play multiple jobs, and if they add more, you're going to have to forfeit multiple jobs, cause there's just not enough room for it. That doesn't even include PVP gear.
But the point is to keep a basic theme of lets say DRG, without making multiple jobs for different roles.
The biggest reason i made this post, was cause of the SAM dps/tank thread (it applies to WAR/DRK/etc, too) cause whatever you do, people are going to be annoyed - and it's not like they should make 2 different SAM jobs, for dps and tanking, it would just be better if you could pick whichever.
They kind of wanted to fix that with SMN/SCH, but it didn't work for the prev classes, and now they kind of ruined it again, by making DRK tank exclusive, with no options for pure dps.