DRK balance

[shao32]

to heal living dead you need recover X hp if DRK have 23k of hp you need recover those 23k in total, the damage taken don't affect the amount of hp you need to recover, convalescence, bloodbath and soul eater helps too, you can help you healer with that and no waste benediction at all, if the healer don't see living thats her problem but i don't expect they save me if only i use living dead and i don't use nothing more to help with heals.

If the healer is dead what use does LD have other then prolonging that wipe?

if healer is dead you wipe al ready in a dungeon or you have a sumoner for raise her or you are doom, and WAR have the same problem they are hit to 1 hp if healer are dead and holmgang ends bye bye WAR, so this is not a excuse.

I honestly feel like LD was designed around raid encounters and those who don't raid have a lot of trouble dealing with LD in general

or you are runnig with a really bad healer or you are tanking more mods that you healer can heal, is extremly rare need use LV in dungeons, more if you are using your CD properly., dungeons are veary easy.

dark arts mp cost scale with you mp, so no mater if you have 30 or 30k the cost is the same.

DRK complexity is manage you mp, DRK are not designe to use dark arts 100% of the time, that is a maddnes, DRK are designe to when and what dark arts i use, thats the diference betwen good and bad DRK.

[MagiusNecros]

MP cost scales by level. I've been increasing my piety and the costs remain the same. In fact the MP restore from Sole Survivor has been increasing as well. At 220 Piety SS restore gave 1386. At 242 it gives 1435. And will only get better from there with continued investment.

SS and CnS MP restores are preset to restore 884 MP at lvl 60.

[Voltyblast]

Snip

Well duh, I'm not a healer main: my healer is only 197, so of course it won't heal for 6k or more: this is just my experience on the field, not just a super complex calculation i did in the mind. Infact all what I just said in that post takes in consideration the best case scenario.

Let me put this way: as an AST (which is 197 so mind that) whenever a DRK goes into Walking Dead Status it simply means I have to heal to their Max hp. I said 20k but in reality it can be even 25k, so one more heal with -my- gear. Sure I have regens and all that but it's yet again the best case scenario: what if he or she has a healing debuff? What about damage increase debuffs? Those have to be counted as well and only hinder your tank's survival whenever that happens.

Sure I admit it, I'm bad with AST but it still doesn't change the fact that LD and WD are the most unreliable tanking saves in the game so far, because it adds busy work to a relatively simple mechanic: surviving a deadly blow. Oh it sure saves you from that blow but is your tank at 99% hp after 10 seconds? Oops it's dead, gotta heal faster! Is it my fault if my AST is weak and can't heal them to max hp? Alright then why PLD and WAR can survive just fine with my gear? Their CDs won't kill them after 10 or 5 seconds of not full health, but it will kill them if I don't recovery them a certain amount of hp. Keyword here being "A certain", not "100% hp"

And yes, ED is a strong heal, but it's no Benediction: it can scale up to 1000 potency ((according to Reddit), but it doesn't beat 100% hp recovery!

PS: Calcabrina can hit for about 8k, and the bosses in the arboretum can hit for about 5k unmitigated on a DRK/PLD. So yes, there are some dungeon bosses who can do that high amount of damage. And yes I can tell that because I'm a tank main. Ironically not a DRK though.

[shao32]

MP cost scales by level. I've been increasing my piety and the costs remain the same. In fact the MP restore from Sole Survivor has been increasing as well. At 220 Piety SS restore gave 1386. At 242 it gives 1435. And will only get better from there with continued investment.

SS and CnS MP restores are preset to restore 884 MP at lvl 60.

you are right, i don't know why i think in that moment scale whith mp.

mp scale with our lvl too most of them, thats i want to say, and our mp recover is lock with lvl too except of sole survivor that scales with a 20%.

the only problem i see for casuals and ejem "lazy" ejem players is meaby the cost of dark passenger who is a extra ogc 884 mp cost who can easy breaks you control of dark arts mp cost, but is like i say many times the limit for DRK is 3k mp, thats is the margin to change grit off/on and dealt with darkpassenger extra mp cost when you try to recover.

[Kaze3434]

Well duh, I'm not a healer main: my healer is only 197, so of course it won't heal for 6k or more: this is just my experience on the field, not just a super complex calculation i did in the mind. Infact all what I just said in that post takes in consideration the best case scenario.
Let me put this way: as an AST (which is 197 so mind that) whenever a DRK goes into Walking Dead Status it simply means I have to heal to their Max hp. I said 20k but in reality it can be even 25k, so one more heal with -my- gear. Sure I have regens and all that but it's yet again the best case scenario: what if he or she has a healing debuff? What about damage increase debuffs? Those have to be counted as well and only hinder your tank's survival whenever that happens.

Sure I admit it, I'm bad with AST but it still doesn't change the fact that LD and WD are the most unreliable tanking saves in the game so far, because it adds busy work to a relatively simple mechanic: surviving a deadly blow. Oh it sure saves you from that blow but is your tank at 99% hp after 10 seconds? Oops it's dead, gotta heal faster! Is it my fault if my AST is weak and can't heal them to max hp? Alright then why PLD and WAR can survive just fine with my gear? Their CDs won't kill them after 10 or 5 seconds of not full health, but it will kill them if I don't recovery them a certain amount of hp. Keyword here being "A certain", not "100% hp"

And yes, ED is a strong heal, but it's no Benediction: it can scale up to 1000 potency ((according to Reddit), but it doesn't beat 100% hp recovery!

PS: Calcabrina can hit for about 8k, and the bosses in the arboretum can hit for about 5k unmitigated on a DRK/PLD. So yes, there are some dungeon bosses who can do that high amount of damage. And yes I can tell that because I'm a tank main. Ironically not a DRK though.

going to take each point in turn. only point i wont touch is the ilvl of your ast(tho i did do some testing to see what heals would be like at that point, about 5.3-4 k.)
first point i will say is about the healing debuff. pretty much every single healing debuff that happens, happens to the healer, because it targets the spells that heal, not the person that gets them. there are a few that lower how much a person gets healed for(ramuh) but they are few and far between. the dmg increasing one usually happens when someone screws up something, and if it happens enough to the point that any tank oh crap cd is needed to live, chances are it was going to be a wipe no matter what.

second point is the healing amount required. this amount isnt the sole responsibility of the healer. drk has the job of making sure they live thru that as easy/simple as possible. its the same case for warrior. any smart tank is going to put up more then just LD/Holm. in the case of drk, they can make it easier to live by using two cds with ld. convalescence and blood bath(overkill imo, as one would make it easy to live). same goes for the healer. pay attention, and if such a cd is used, prep for major heals. main healer i would think having some trouble with LD is sch depending on timing.(tho emergency tactics is pretty amazing. had a few crits that healed for 10k+)

last point is about the bosses you mentioned. or rather, bosses in general. all tank busters are telegraphed to hell. if any tank had to use their big cd to live to knock down, they werent getting healed to begin with, because there is almost no dmg going out during that fight, save for a few auto attacks. that would be less of a tank issue and more a healer issue. that bee boss however, i will give you that. screw that boss and its "let me sting you harder at whenever i want".

[Derio]

If you have to use LD in dungeons then there is something wrong with either you or the healer. Not the DRK job itself.

[AronVillar]

DRK have the best MT dps and the best anti-magic skill, if the boss have magic tank buster DRK becomes imposible to run out def CD.

if drk absorb party mp healers and casters they hate you forever, DRK need some OT ticks but nothing like that.

well not exactly absorb healers or casters mp, it could be a single party member, like melee dps that don't use MP. This is just me trying to make the melee MP useful.

[AronVillar]

I consider DRK a perfect balance between mitigation and damage. But it have some advantages like more MT dps and more magical mitigation if the boss is magical type. It also have a very high OT DPS, more focused on sustain DPS than burst DPS. I main DRK since 3.0 launch. I was before a PLD/WAR, I won't be again PLD/WAR as main (Samurai tank can chage my mind...)

There are only 3 things that must be adjusted for me.

1. Living Dead need the healer know what is it and how deal with it. That's not possible always, it need chage is invulnerability effect to something easier to handle.

2. Grit should be out of global coldown like the warrior Defiance, it makes hard chage stances quick.

3. Dark Arts should have less cost. The MP drain with this is too high and you can run out of MP accidentally a lot of times.

I agree with you, Dark Arts should cost less MP, it costs way too much MP also Grit costs a lot of MP, the devs should reduce it.

[alimdia]

I agree with you, Dark Arts should cost less MP, it costs way too much MP also Grit costs a lot of MP, the devs should reduce it.

Okay half Dark arts mp cost, half all of dark arts effects. done.

[Voltyblast]

Snip

Just wanting to tell you that you're not incorrect, but you're taking in consideration the best case scenario of everything and this is only half good, half bad.

Let me put this way: do you know how many tanks I had to heal through bad big pulls? And how many tanks didn't use their CDs correctly? OR how many tanks didn't aggro well and I had to heal the dps more than the tank (yes it's something I had to deal with)? More than you can imagine. Sure this becomes "easier" if the tanks knows what to do but this is not always the case: everything we both said takes in consideration the best case scenario, where a tank dodges everything and uses CD accordingly, but it's not always the case: the reality is that a lot happens and there are a lot of variants.

And this brings back the topic: LD/WD is too unreliable because it requires a lot of "work" in order to be effective and considering that sometimes tanks might be extremely bad (but also extremely good), this might or might not work in a normal scenario. As a PLD when I cast HG I won't die even if the healer is bad at topping me and same for the WAR, despite the less duration of Holmgang, but as a DRK I will die regardless of my health, except if it reaches 100% hp.

Of course in raids this doesn't count "that much" because you have two healers, but it still doesn't change the point that it's just unreliable and needs some rework to make it a little better. As of now, it's just a P.I.T.A.

PS: A lot of tank busters aren't telegraphed and are like auto-attacks (like Titan), while some aren't (like Calcabrina) and here's one thing that I dislike about DRK: they don't have a reliable Defensive Burst like Inner Beast or Sheltron. Reprisal is a 10% damage debuff which is nice but has to be lucky to have it at the right time (its proc doesn't last long: you either use it or wait another parry). Dark Arts Dark Dance can trigger evasion but for what I know Tank Busters cannot be dodged so you'll have to stick with 30% parry chance. Their other CDs are mostly mitigation.