Blood Weapon / other DRK suggestions:

[JackFross]

While I honestly cannot speak for Savage modes (My experience at most is 4 man parties at this point; I'm not interested in the raiding part of things. Done enough of that in my lifetime.)

You can use Sole Survivor at the end of mob pulls for a Mana boost for the following pack.
You can also use Sole Survivor at the end of a boss to get a Mana boost for turning Grit back on for the following pull.
All of the situations I mentioned also apply to the normal modes of the mentioned fights, as well.

So counter intuitive.

Only a little. When your gear is high enough, there's no reason to be rocking tank stance when you have all your cooldowns ready (and they'll often go unused!) and your hate is firmly established. I tank A5S in Sword Oath during the baby phases, since there's basically no damage coming out and I can Divine Veil for one of the Shock Therapy shots, mitigating damage, while also rolling Foresight to aid in my defense during the parts where healing splits between the tanks. (I tank all of Midas Normal in Sword Oath as well with pug healers and never have issues surviving, since I know many of you will mention LOL RAIDER stuff.)

It's all about maximizing your effectiveness as a tank. It's a trap to think that your role is to be a stone wall between the boss and your party. Damage is a collective effort, and enhancing yours when it's safe to do so serves to enhance your value to the group. A tank who does 1000 dps to a boss in a dungeon while surviving just as well and allowing the healer to dps just as effectively is vastly superior to one who does 300 dps because they turtled in tank stance and spammed their aggro combo. I am the former - I have run with the latter.

Helpful in FATE farms, excellent but limited in it's use in dungeon runs(enemy about to die then use it), and based on raid completion times and if an add is there to die you'll only use it about 5-7 times with that 2 minute cooldown. Maybe more if it lasts longer then 15 minutes.

It's really not as limited as you're implying, since you have Blood Price and Blood Weapon while things are alive and then Sole Survivor for when things die - since things aren't constantly dying, you're really not experiencing a limited amount of uses.

SoSu is just really a power word to the party to kill the one enemy quickly to essentially give the DRK a mercy stroke buff. Meanwhile at 58 the PLD and WAR get rewarded with a bonus that is guaranteed and on lower cooldowns. PLD gets a lot of HP back or even on a party member and themselves, WAR can choose between HP/TP and DRK has to work for a possible HP+MP restore and fail to kill thing in 15 seconds you just wasted your 58 skill for nothing.

You time it so that the mob will die within 15s. You don't use it on something that's got 50% left. It's always - /always/ - easy to tell when you want to use it. It takes a little getting used to, because it suffers from Bene animation delay, but once you do, 15s is a long time. If you focus it down after dropping it, it'll always die fast enough.

I hate - HATE - people comparing a skill that you use at least once in every encounter in the game if you're playing properly to a skill you should never use in almost any situation ever and then say that the latter is BETTER.

Clemency is garbage. 100% unadulterated garbage. Hands down the worst skill any tank learns from 52 to 60. It eats a GCD, breaks combos, and does the job that the Healer should be doing. Any situation where you as a PLD need to use Clemency is a time when you are covering for a healer who is not doing their job. No other use exists. It's not a skill you consistently use at a given time in a given fight, it's a skill you use to proc Divine Veil if you use it after the SCH shields go out or in a situation where you won't reliably receive a heal to proc it.

It is strictly worse than Sole Surivivor. Period. Fullstop.

Then i prefer Old good Sole Survivor lol. I wonder how many "Yuni... please..." i would hear if i have moved with boss to adds in A1S to get those MP/HP points xD

The only issue with SS on the A1S adds is if you hit it too soon, you'll tether to it. SS has the same range as Provoke. You can use it without moving from the boss and when the add dies, you'll get the bonus, regardless where it dies.

Question would be: who does more DPS, you or the healer when he can DPS 20% more?

It's not just a Dork Knight thing though. I see all tanks do it and imho it's weird that every healer/tank class has to do stance dancing.

When I tank in Sword Oath on bosses, I pull upwards of 1000 dps without a Ninja in the party in a dungeon.
When I play SCH in dungeons, I pull upwards of 600-700 dps on bosses in a dungeon.

Most tanks I see when playing SCH pull 300-500 dps at best.
Most healers I see when playing PLD pull 200-300 dps at best.

When I find a tank doing 1000 and not using tank stance, I'll generally be relegated to doing ~550-650 instead of 600-700 while the tank is doing 800-1000 instead of 300-500.

Healing is easy. It doesn't matter what stance you're in, a healer can only dps so much and won't need to heal until the same points in the fight either way. Fairies and regens do all the work for us in dungeon boss fights.

Honestly with its massive CD and literally mediocre effects I would of expected it to be a ton times better. It is very gimmicky.

It absolutely is not.

- It can be cast and do nothing.
- It relies on something to die.
- It has very little effect.
- It is only good in a few fights in the game and pretty much useless everywhere else.
- It has no visual.
- Unlike Mercy Stroke you can use it over a certain percent of health.

- It only does nothing if YOU, the PLAYER, use it wrong. It being an advanced skill that requires timing and thought does not make it a bad skill.
- It restores you more Mana than you spend to turn Grit on. It restores you a significant portion of health.
- Again - it is useful in LITERALLY EVERY ENCOUNTER IN THE ENTIRE GAME AT LEAST ONCE, USUALLY MORE THAN ONCE. If I have to, I will list off how and where you should use it in every level 60 instance, since you seem to be incapable of figuring this out yourself, as you continuously parrot this incorrect point.
- The lack of visual is very disappointing, I agree. :C
- If you use it over a certain percent of health, you're using it wrong. It requiring skill does not make it bad, to reiterate.

I find Mercy Stroke 100 times better because it heals you significantly if it kills the target and actually weaves into macros better because of its health requirement. It also does a lot of damage. Mercy stroke isn't even that good of an ability though..

Mercy Stroke is a dps increase, and timing it to be the last hit on a mob is nearly impossible. You use it for dps, not for the heal, in party content. You use it for the heal in solo content.

Anytime I see an ability that is only good for a few fights, and see other classes get abilities they can use in every fight and want to use. I facepalm and wonder what development was thinking.

Sole Survivor. Is. Useful. In. Every. Encounter. In. The. Game.
By comparison: Clemency is useful in two encounters in the game.
1. Sephirot EX
2. Burden of the Son (Normal)

I say that having been a main Paladin on my alt for the entirety of Heavensward. It has 0 uses outside those two instances outside of picking up healer slack. And those two cases, it's only being used to proc Divine Veil, which can be done with Cure for a fraction of the cost and without having to waste our level 58 skill on something worthless.


I'm not even going to dignify that horrid rework of a really good skill with a response.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Sole Survivor. Is. Useful. In. Every. Encounter. In. The. Game.
By comparison: Clemency is useful in two encounters in the game.
1. Sephirot EX
2. Burden of the Son (Normal)

I say that having been a main Paladin on my alt for the entirety of Heavensward. It has 0 uses outside those two instances outside of picking up healer slack. And those two cases, it's only being used to proc Divine Veil, which can be done with Cure for a fraction of the cost and without having to waste our level 58 skill on something worthless.


I'm not even going to dignify that horrid rework of a really good skill with a response.

With Clemency you can face tank a bunch of monsters and heal yourself whilst the healer DPSes. Clearly you have no idea what situational means. It is an amazing ability that can be used in a variety of content and be amazing. That is why its amazing. Soul Survivor can only work really in a few parts of the game and be good, wheras the rest its kind of pointless.

That is called Situational. 20% Health and 20% Mana is literally nothing on a spectrum of things. It is just a little help. A cooldown will prevent SO MUCH more damage then that 20% health, and 20% mana? That is pretty much a Riot Bl--, oh.. I mean Syphon Strike. I am glad we have such unique class skills!

Dungeons with Paladins are amazing now, because I can go FULL DPS on my Scholar whilst the tank keeps himself alive. Which reminds me of the old days on Everquest 2 grouping with a Paladin and his self heals being amazing.

Honestly, if you think Clemency is "situational" then you need to play more of the game, you've obviously missed something. I mean, the fact you can save yourself AND save the healers mana alone...

Its amazing for solo.
Its amazing for dungeons.
Its amazing for PvP.
Its amazing for Raiding if your group is made around it.

THAT IS called "A Real Skill".

That is kind of like saying resurrection on summoner is useless and situational!

[JackFross]

With Clemency you can face tank a bunch of monsters and heal yourself whilst the healer DPSes. Clearly you have no idea what situational means. It is an amazing ability that can be used in a variety of content and be amazing. That is why its amazing. Soul Survivor can only work really in a few parts of the game and be good, wheras the rest its kind of pointless.

That is called Situational. 20% Health and 20% Mana is literally nothing on a spectrum of things. It is just a little help. A cooldown will prevent SO MUCH more damage then that 20% health, and 20% mana? That is pretty much a Riot Bl--, oh.. I mean Syphon Strike. I am glad we have such unique class skills!

Okay. I'll run through every single level 60 Instance from Aetherochemical Research Facility up and through Burden of the Son (Savage). One at a time. I am gonna just lump dungeons together, because they all function identically.

Dungeons
- Trash pack - SS at the end gives you Mana for the next pack or the following boss.
- Boss - SS at the end gives you Mana to turn Grit on and Mana for the next pack.

The Singularity Reactor
- Meteor circles can proc SS. You can proc off the big one at the end of it to gain mana before the downtime leading to Ultimate End. There is not enough downtime there without a BRD/MCH to fully regen your Mana.

The Limitless Blue (Extreme)
- The Sanuwa snakes can proc SS for mana regen leading into his ult.
- The fight is a series of add fights. Every add can be SS'd to give you mana for the following phase.
- You can usually proc once off the initial add pack, once off the Sanuwa, and once again off an add pack in the final phase.

Thok Ast Thok (Extreme)
- Butterflies can proc Sole Survivor during that windup phase, giving a little extra burst of Mana leading into Bloody Fuller.

The Minstrel's Ballad: Thordan's Reign
- You can proc it again off the Meteor in the same spot to gain Mana for the final phase push.

Containment Bay S1T7 (Normal and Extreme)
- Phase 2 adds proc Sole Survivor. They also explode and do damage! SS mitigates how much you take by instantly healing some back.
- Final phase adds proc Sole Survivor. You can use SS on every set of adds in the fight.

The Void Ark
- Trash is trash. SS works on everything here.
- Cetus - SS can proc off any of the myriad shark mobs (and the water balls) that he spawns periodically throughout the fight.
- Irminsul - SS can proc off the bees that spawn around the arena AND you can proc it off the first boss to die to give you mana for the final burn on the boss that's still alive.
- Cuchulainn - SS procs off the towers and the pudding adds that spawn.
- Echidna - SS procs off the snakes and Echidna when they die in the middle phases.

The Fist of the Father (Normal and Savage)
- You can proc SS off Faust for mana going into Oppressor if you'd rather not wait.
- You can also proc SS off the Alarum adds that spawn, AND the first Oppressor to die.

The Cuff of the Father (Normal and Savage)
- It's a trash fight. Everything dies fast and it all procs SS.

The Arm of the Father (Normal and Savage)
- The adds phase - every mob there can proc SS.
- (Savage only) In final phase, you can proc SS off the Limb that grabs a healer.

The Burden of the Father (Normal and Savage)
- You can proc SS off the little faust adds that spawn during the second leg.
- (Savage only) Multiple larger adds spawn throughout the fight which can all proc SS.

The Fist of the Son (Normal and Savage)
- Adds spawn, every one of them can proc SS.
- You can also proc SS on the Fausts before Hummelfaust drops to get a burst of Mana before the transition.

The Cuff of the Son (Normal and Savage)
- Blaster, Brawler, Swindler, and Vortexer all proc SS when they die.
- (Savage only) Brawler doesn't proc it on death, but the orbs he spawns after death all can proc it.
- (Savage only) Swindler's adds all proc SS as well.

The Arm of the Son (Normal and Savage)
- The adds in the cages all can proc SS, so tank cage gets you a boost.
- The adds when the boss jumps also all proc SS, so they'll give you a boost.
- The Heart spawned by Shanoa procs SS when it dies, so there's another boost!

The Burden of the Son (Normal and Savage)
- Onslaughter dies and procs it at the end of p1.
- Blaster, Brawler, Swindler, and Vortexer all proc SS for mana, as well.
- Haven't done this fight on Savage, yet, so I'm unsure if there's anything after p2 that would also proc it.



I find it very difficult to listen to someone tell me that a skill is "situational" when it's useful in every encounter in the game. Find a new argument, please and thank you.

This usefulness compares with Clemency, which is the definition of situational. You use it when the healer fucks up and doesn't heal properly. Otherwise, it's literally never used. In 100% of the content in the game, you can leave Clemency off your bar entirely and play them in the exact same way every single time. If people die, blame the healers, because it's their fault and their responsibility. Sure, you can save people from mistakes with Clemency as Paladin, and sure you can heal through single-target damage as Paladin, but any combination of Regen, Aspected Benefic and Embrace heals will keep you up with fewer resources spent just as effectively.



Also, as was said - a Paladin who's doing DPS and not worrying about a shit Scholar who can't fucking heal can do nearly double the dps of the Scholar who is completely shirking their responsibilities. I had a SCH who was so honed in on dps they let me die to the second boss of Antitower, even after the first time it happened I popped HG and used Clemency to heal myself back up. That fight ended with me at 850 and the Scholar at 400.

Fairy heals can keep the tank alive. My Scholar is i213 and I never cast a single heal during boss fights. If I have a tank out of tank stance, they require exactly the same amount of healing, because damage is that low.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Okay. I'll run through every single level 60 Instance from Aetherochemical Research Facility up and through Burden of the Son (Savage). One at a time. I am gonna just lump dungeons together, because they all function identically.

Dungeons
- Trash pack - SS at the end gives you Mana for the next pack or the following boss.
- Boss - SS at the end gives you Mana to turn Grit on and Mana for the next pack.

So does waiting for 3 seconds for your out of combat mana and health regeneration...

Anyways, your examples are valid but I like how you go: "A little extra help." on some of those things. It really shows how little the skills value is compared to a real cooldown. If Soul Survivor had a much shorter cooldown and a (This skill can only be used at enemies below a certain amount of % hp) it would be a much better ability. As well as not being able to use it on main bosses, because as I said before.

Your out of combat, so your base out of combat HP/Regen is better.

An entire ability shouldn't justify by waiting a few seconds...

Anyways, it seems you have something against DPS healers. However a Paladin in level 60 dungeons can go full defensive and let the healers DPS, especially scholars and mass pulling making the zone a cakewalk that can be done in 10 minutes.

[KrenianKandos]

You can use Sole Survivor at the end of mob pulls for a Mana boost for the following pack.
You can also use Sole Survivor at the end of a boss to get a Mana boost for turning Grit back on for the following pull.
All of the situations I mentioned also apply to the normal modes of the mentioned fights, as well.

Soul Survivor has a two minute cooldown. I can take mobs down in around a minute with good dps. Which means I get to use Soul Survivor every two packs.

I never ever get to a situation where I need to boost myself up with Soul Survivor because my mana management is on par and I always finish with more than half. It's just knowing and feeling the fight the way it goes and when to use it. If I'm using Soul Survivor, it's because I messed up somewhere and have less mana than I thought I would at the end of the fight.

Same goes for the fight. It is nice but it is NOT a necessary skill to have. You can easily clear content without even once relying on your Soul Survivor skill and hurting yourself whatsoever by playing the class right. Sorry, I will respectfully disagree with you that it's a good skill. I find it lacklustre and it's one of those skills that you can easily forget you even have.

EDIT: Let me justify that the skill is fine, and the biggest issue I have is the cooldown. It's far too long for my liking. If they brought it down to a 60 second CD, I'd be more content with it.