Does Adloquium need a minor fix?

[Tint]

but if any healer role does need an update I think it's WHM. It doesn't bring the utility that a SCH/AST combo can provide, especially if they make the mind bonus universal too.

haha, so true. i think the devs have not realized that the people want the mind bonus to increase their DPS, not the healing xD so selene and ast dps buffs on top of the mnd bonus to increase the dps even further. and whm is the only one who really needs the piety bonus. if they change the party bonus it's just another nerf for whm. how often did they nerf the whm now?

[Kabzy]

haha, so true. i think the devs have not realized that the people want the mind bonus to increase their DPS, not the healing xD so selene and ast dps buffs on top of the mnd bonus to increase the dps even further. and whm is the only one who really needs the piety bonus. if they change the party bonus it's just another nerf for whm. how often did they nerf the whm now?

I don't think it's so much that they nerfed WHM, they still have the highest healing output of the three. But when an Astrologian can dish out near identical healing output, plus buffs it seems a little unfair. In fact I'm rather surprised that there hasn't been an outcry from all the WHMs. I do wonder what exactly a WHM brings to the group that a Diurnal AST cannot.

[Katlyna]

The majority of people who answered didnt give me an opinion, they gave me a, "you forgot to take this into account" response. I have no problem with someone saying "I disagree, because of this and that", some people even did that. I wasn't taking the other utility into account because I wanted the skills to be taken at face value, based on all of the factors in that one skill alone.

Its not that you "forgot" is that you said you intentionally removed it as a factor. The problem being your discussion at that point is kind of in the dirt from most folks who are interested in theory craft (not everyone, but I would estimate a majority). Consequently you got the feedback that... your question is simply not interesting if you're going to ignore the pet.

Likewise this induces some rage, because in many ways Noct Astro is still NOTABLY deficit in comparison to Scholars. So much that securing a healer slot in a savage raid in the Scholar slot is virtually impossible (and possibly foolish). As some have pointed out Noct Astro's do have some advantages, the biggest being their kit has higher mobile healing than a scholar (due to the instant cast shield, lightspeed and Essential Dignity) Likewise Astros have the double heal-mode of Synastry. But again the problem falls that in current raid content Scholars ability to do their full DPS, while the pet sub heals causes all healers interested in their slot to fall VASTLY short. Anyway for better or worse this triggers some rage when a scholar says hey... like what they have, can I get a buff in that direction? So you can look and get huggles... but you probably should walk some Noct Astro's shoes to understand why their skills are tuned the way they are. Or ask why they are ;-) That would have worked to if you asked why there was such a deficit between the two skills in mana cost (and instant cast).

[Einheri]

The majority of people who answered didnt give me an opinion, they gave me a, "you forgot to take this into account" response. I have no problem with someone saying "I disagree, because of this and that", some people even did that. I wasn't taking the other utility into account because I wanted the skills to be taken at face value, based on all of the factors in that one skill alone.

You asked people if they shared your feeling that a spell should receive a minor buff because compared in a vacuum you feel them to be imbalanced. When people brought up the fairy and other aspects of class balance you dismissed them as not being valid in the comparison you wanted to make to prove your point. You sir should host a cable news show.

[Katlyna]

I don't think it's so much that they nerfed WHM, they still have the highest healing output of the three. But when an Astrologian can dish out near identical healing output, plus buffs it seems a little unfair. In fact I'm rather surprised that there hasn't been an outcry from all the WHMs. I do wonder what exactly a WHM brings to the group that a Diurnal AST cannot.

Cure 3s regen factor is larger making certain content less intense. But an Astro properly playing can keep pace entirely even missing the extra regen, but it does sometimes mean you need one extra GCD to cover. Likewise if your run Scholar+Astro you loose the Mind bonus WHM brings. There are a few other factors which white mage bring in secondary skills but I concur, the line between Whitemage and Astro is getting very fine. Note that EVEN if white mages are behind at this point. There is still a stigma on most servers that Astro's filling for white mages is subpar!

[Katlyna]

You asked people if they shared your feeling that a spell should receive a minor buff because compared in a vacuum you feel them to be imbalanced. When people brought up the fairy and other aspects of class balance you dismissed them as not being valid in the comparison you wanted to make to prove your point. You sir should host a cable news show.

This made me laugh ;-)

[Tint]

I don't think it's so much that they nerfed WHM, they still have the highest healing output of the three. But when an Astrologian can dish out near identical healing output, plus buffs it seems a little unfair. In fact I'm rather surprised that there hasn't been an outcry from all the WHMs. I do wonder what exactly a WHM brings to the group that a Diurnal AST cannot.

oh, we had such an outcry:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...thing-anymore.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-to-white-mage
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rologian-buff.

probably time to necro one of them instead of pirate this topic here ^^;

[Kaurie]

I don't think it's so much that they nerfed WHM, they still have the highest healing output of the three. But when an Astrologian can dish out near identical healing output, plus buffs it seems a little unfair. In fact I'm rather surprised that there hasn't been an outcry from all the WHMs. I do wonder what exactly a WHM brings to the group that a Diurnal AST cannot.

-Cure III is a huge one, this is incredibly useful if you need to heal splash damage on a tank, off-tank and/or melee. Encounters that I have seen them especially useful are T11 and A4 (at least normal, I never made it to A4S)

-I believe the AoE heals on WHM have a farther range than AST?

-WHM has the highest burst DPS of all 3 jobs

-IMO WHM procs are better than AST procs, in that I'd rather have Cure II be free MP than Benefic II be instant cast

-WHM can cross class E4E, awesome skill

The big one though is Cure III - that skill is just great.

[Eloah]

If you asked why there was such a deficit between the two skills in mana cost (and instant cast).

Is this not what I asked, in so many word. Again the first person to answer my question answered exactly this.

But aside from that question, I do agree with your statement. Also I do walk in Noct Astro shoes, its my prefered sect, another reason why I posed the question.

You asked people if they shared your feeling that a spell should receive a minor buff because compared in a vacuum you feel them to be imbalanced. When people brought up the fairy and other aspects of class balance you dismissed them as not being valid in the comparison you wanted to make to prove your point. You sir should host a cable news show.

Sure I'll host a show if you can show me the forest amongst the tree, inverted in this case, but still. And no I didn't dismiss those individuals, because those individuals didn't share an opinion, they just said you forgot this. Taking the entire kit into account is fine, several responders here did it while sharing their opinion, but a majority did not.

Now please, I'll admit to accidentally inducing some rage, but lets let this topic die instead of continuing a flame war.

[RiceisNice]

Is this not what I asked, in so many word. Again the first person to answer my question answered exactly this.

Does anyone else feel Adlo should maybe be altered slightly to fix this? Not saying anything drastic, maybe something as simple as a slightly lower MP cost, or adjusting the % of when adlo will crit. Not saying the skills are broken just that the discrepancy just seems a little odd to me.

As people have said, if oyu want to take them in a vaccum (where it really doesn't make sense to make a skill comparison at this point, it's honestly a moot point), then yes, aldo would need some adjustments. But that's not the case in point, and honestly it just feels like you want to set up a one-sided discussion where people would agree with you (which shouldn't be the case, otherwise it defeats the point of a discussion) and otherwise shoot down anyone that goes beyond your border.