Its april 2016 yet no healer stat weights???

[Yhisa]

[QUOTE=Granyala;3659634]Looks good.
Yes we did calc with 100 SpS, which is why I said that it is worth more than crit. With the usual cave eat that it's value drops to pretty much the HoT bonus only the moment you stop casting every GCD.

DET is to be avoided like the plague then it seems.

Timings on Enochial & Astral/Umbral my dear. The more haste you have the more lenient they get due to shorter casts and the less likely you'll lose Enochian at the last millisecond of the cast.[m/QUOTE]

Erm.. Enochian was not in ARR and still black mages stacked spell speed

Enochian and leylines if from heavenward only... Back in ARR black mage had no spell speed buff or combos.... Just firestarter and thunder cloud procs only but they still stack spell speed... So if spell speed was bad they would never stack it as black mage in ARR

[Ghishlain]

I thought this was the case .

It also means crit is exceptionally good with HoT based healers.

Yeah, I've always been a fan of Crit on any my healer regardless of the job and this kinda solidifies that decision for me. It's a minor increase overall but it helps out in the HoT department nicely.

Erm.. Enochian was not in ARR and still black mages stacked spell speed

Enochian and leylines if from heavenward only... Back in ARR black mage had no spell speed buff or combos.... Just firestarter and thunder cloud procs only but they still stack spell speed... So if spell speed was bad they would never stack it as black mage in ARR

BLMs also have infinite resources too. One of the reasons you don't stack it hard on other jobs (aside from hitting certain breakpoints) is to keep your resources going. Your DPS suffers greatly once a phyisical DPS is out of TP for example. It's often better to hit slightly harder than slightly faster if the stats can be adjusted to hit that.

[Granyala]

Enochian and leylines if from heavenward only... Back in ARR black mage had no spell speed buff or combos.... Just firestarter and thunder cloud procs only but they still stack spell speed... So if spell speed was bad they would never stack it as black mage in ARR

Ever played a black mage?
Ever played a black mage in heavy movement encounters?

Trust me: if you are THAT stationary by design and limited to long ass casts, you too would take all the haste you can get your fingers on. >.<

[Katlyna]

One thing I am leaning toward per discussions in this thread and more chat with our raiders (we have like 6 raid groups progressing in our FC) is adjusting the Priority for Astros (and I suspect White mages would find this ideal) to be Spell Speed > Piety > Determination or Critical (personal preference).

In theory per discussions I'm concluding the following from my playstyle:

Spell speed is fairly obvious for both classes in that it directly affects your ability to move and heal and allows you more time to react between mechanics. In a perfect world you don't need this time (and it wouldn't benefit you). But since we and our teammates are not perfect, anything which gives us more time to react is HIGHLY beneficially for main healers.

Since Determination and Critical strike chance don't actually functionally change your average rotation, this leaves Piety as slightly-moderately more optimal for progression. Specifically because again we're operating in an imperfect world where people are dying and getting caught in things they shouldn't be. Hence you are spending time and mana resurrecting people or using GCDs for additional large heals. While running out of mana doesn't occur all the time, I have definitely seen clears where running low on mana or out is occurring. In the world/server first videos you can see them running very tight on mana as well. So this would put

Additional Determination may simply be irreverent since mechanics are binary, either you reach the base requirement to heal X damage or you do not. And the base requirement is not some high inflated determination. In which extra determination looks good in theory but doesn't actually change your GCD cycle any.

Critical chance as discussed can change your GCD but does so in a way which is fairly awkward for Astros and White mages. Additional Critcal chance is highly personal preference and its efficiency depends how often it results in overheals, and how often you recognize you crit, and can skip (or re-direct) your next heal.

---

This essential means that if you are super pro, not making mistakes and 100% understand the fight that optimal would be Critical > Spell Speed > Determination > Piety

But for actual progression it looks to be Spell Speed > Piety > Determination | Critical Chance

[Granyala]

Keep in mind that if you DPS in raids, Accuracy is your must have stat.

Personally I go with SS/PIE, since I do not raid.

[Kaurie]

Keep in mind that if you DPS in raids, Accuracy is your must have stat.

Personally I go with SS/PIE, since I do not raid.

Also as you pointed out SpS only exceeds CRIT in the stat weights if you are constantly healing (i.e. if you are getting a free heal every 10 casts, the only time this would benefit you is if you need to cast 11 heals back to back - otherwise the added SpS does not increase your healing power). It does help with reaction times and HoTs though.

Personally, I'd say:

SCH (no matter what): Accuracy > Crit > SpS > PIE >>>> DET

WHM/AST (progression): SPS = CRIT > PIE >>>> DET
WHM/AST (farm): CRIT > SPS > PIE >>>> DET

[Judge_Xero]

Here's some values if you guys would like for stat effects at level 60.

9 MND = 1% increase
9 ACC = 1% increase
66 SPD = 1% Reduction in Cast/ReCast and 1% Increase in HoT/DoT
72 DET = 1% increase
42.9 CRT = 1% Crit Chance and Multiplier (Base = 5% Chance and 45% Multiplier)

[Granyala]

200 DET = 1/72*200 = 2.77% increase in throughput.

That sounds much more believable than the 0.x% values tossed around so far.
From the looks of it, SS/Crit/DET are pretty well balanced among each other.

[Kaurie]

Here's some values if you guys would like for stat effects at level 60.

9 MND = 1% increase
9 ACC = 1% increase
66 SPD = 1% Reduction in Cast/ReCast and 1% Increase in HoT/DoT
72 DET = 1% increase
42.9 CRT = 1% Crit Chance and Multiplier (Base = 5% Chance and 45% Multiplier)

Thanks =) That, of course, is dependent on your current gear.

i.e. 9 MND at ilvl 220 is less significant than 9 MND in 170 gear. Personally, I found 1 point in MND gave 3.7 HP, so 9 MND gives 33.3 MND. I am hitting 3800+ heals atm, so 10 MND is closer to 1% for me.

44 DET gave 6.9 more HP, so 72 DET would give 11.2 more HP. That's much closer to 0.3% increase.


The thing with DET and MND is they are scaling linearly, so become less and less impactful than CRIT/SpS do. Which means the % increase of DET/MND are dependent on your current healing power - whereas CRIT/SpS have a similar % increase regardless.

Out of curiosity, where did you get your numbers?

[Judge_Xero]

Out of curiosity, where did you get your numbers?

I got them from my own testing as well as from Dervy's work. I prefer to look at % increases of stats rather than create weights because of how variable the stats are especially when you have exponential increases like SPD and CRT.

Det and MND will always be the same increase because they are linear. But like you say, a 1% increase on 1000 heal is less than on a 3000 heal but is 1% regardless.

You also have to look at the variations when testing. Heals have a variance of +/- 5% so you need to have a lot of casts to hit the full min and full max to get the median when comparing or you values will not be accurate.