How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[JackFross]

The hammers don't target the MT, so you should be able to hit the flanks at least, but I'm pretty sure everything during jail is frontal.

Good to know!
And my group is currently letting our NIN be the one to bait double drill on Brawler, so I'm really hoping they're not throwing me into jails. The DPS differential between the two of us is rather wide.
I'll never understand how a couple dropped GCDs for NIN is worse for the NIN than a dropped GCD and a potentially lost gsk is for me, but that's neither here nor there.


I just want to kill A6S at this point. My group's been at it ~23 hours according to raid leader, and we're currently struggling to finalize a good strategy for handling the second bait + fire lines + third pass.

Also re: Vortexer - my group does a triangle thing. First pass at N (A), second pass at SE (B), third pass at SW (C), and my group has been getting pissy with me for using SSD after water and before ice to hit a 4th hit before running back to drop ice if I get it, so I just now don't use gsk OR Phlebotomize in my opener so that I hit the 4th on the boss before he's dragged away (30s timer) then wait in my spot for ice marks, then DFD if I don't have one. I'm planning to SSD during the B4B there (I use a second b4b at the end of Swindler after snipers since we're still a bit off and I get the full duration of it) if I didn't get picked for the second water (since then I'd SSD back after the third thunder pass). I use Elusive to get to C after the second pass completes so I can be in position for the bait and everything. If I get first water, I Elusive at ~4-5s to be in position for Thunder.

My runs where I don't die see me hovering around 1550 in fflogs on the parse page (and napkin math told me that run would have been ~1430) - so basically, does this sound like an effective strategy to handle Vortexer the way my group is doing it? We haven't seen second rotation yet, but I'm hoping using DFD where I do will have it ready for where I'd normally SSD on the first set, but I'm pretty sure I'll end up having to run at some point, no matter what... Anyone have exact timings between passes? Like from 1>2>3>4>5>6?

[Waliel]

Good to know!
And my group is currently letting our NIN be the one to bait double drill on Brawler, so I'm really hoping they're not throwing me into jails. The DPS differential between the two of us is rather wide.
I'll never understand how a couple dropped GCDs for NIN is worse for the NIN than a dropped GCD and a potentially lost gsk is for me, but that's neither here nor there.

Both melees can stay on the boss, if you position like this:



Just be sure to be at max melee range. MT disengages to north. Not sure if you can fit in more with careful positioning -- just the two gets pretty tight.

[JackFross]

Just be sure to be at max melee range. MT disengages to north. Not sure if you can fit in more with careful positioning -- just the two gets pretty tight.

That seems pretty doable, I'm just scared people would get hit haha;; Maybe something to try out with my group once we have the kill and are pushing to maximize. Pulling off barely impacts my dps - only the drill does anything noteworthy and I have it down to less than a gcd's loss with how I handle it atm, anyway.

I'm just a noob who hasn't even gotten past Brawler yet (mostly wiping on Blaster still) but when we do get to try Brawler, it seems to work fine when positioning like in the above image and having both tanks stack on one of the melee at max melee range while the other melee moves in slightly closer. Haven't seen the stacked group get hit yet.

Inefficient to have the tanks get off the boss. Just stack 3 melee on one side and one on the other.

This seems super dangerous to me. If the melee who's baiting is even a hair too close, you wipe the raid. It's something I'd consider suggesting we try out once the fight's dead. Just seems way too scary to risk wiping for a minor DPS gain.

Second vortexer bait can be done by having everyone stack up immediately after the second water is passed. Location of the stack will vary, depending on where you put your first tornado. My group handles fire beams the same as A3S waves, except both tanks stack, to leave the first tornado spot empty. Third pass is after cyclone, so we stack near the middle ready to be pushed back to the correct spots.

This is a completely different strategy than the one my group is doing, and not a lick of this has anything to do with the Vortexer questions I asked. I was asking "how do people min-max Vortexer as Dragoon because of the copious time off the boss to properly handle mechanics" not "how does your group handle mechanics?" Thanks for taking the time to reply, though!

[JackFross]

What do you do?

Currently, our timing for Blaster kills has my SSD come off cooldown at the second Attachment, and DFD comes off at the third one alongside B4B, I think. I forget which exact ones, but they both come up for one each, so I use them on those regardless what mechanic it is. They help to close the gap back if it's single drill though. I always have Elusive in my pocket for one that comes up outside of those times. We usually push before third Chakram (varies based on how much of a dick he is to me with drill mechanics), so we only see like 4-5. I can cover 3 drills out of that.

Outside of that, I generally run out until a split second after he lands, when I gap close back in. Doing it that way, when he targets me, it's generally ~7k. I could probably cut it tighter, but I'd rather not die for marginal gains.

Our SCH baits far so there is no risk whatsoever.

I'm not talking about the far one. I'm talking about it seeming really risky to me to stack so close to the close one. Like yeah one group max melee, the other a bit in from that, but I feel the one person who's baiting has an incredibly tiny safe zone. Shifting just too far in or just too far out could cause a raid wipe by crushing 2-3 of the melee, including tanks. It just seems really risky for the gain it gives.

I could be wrong, though, since I've never tried it out to see for myself.

[Undeadfire]

That seems pretty doable, I'm just scared people would get hit haha;;

If both melee's are on each side, 1 will hit either of them and the caster sitting right corner or left corner of entrance to define Healers/Ranged positions. This will minimize any risk of getting hit.

The tanks can return to the boss from northwards soon it's drilling in the ground, because "Latency".

Edit:

I just want to kill A6S at this point. My group's been at it ~23 hours according to raid leader, and we're currently struggling to finalize a good strategy for handling the second bait + fire lines + third pass.

Fire Lines you need to make a compass direction to where each person goes, except for the 1st water placement. Both tanks face the Fire lines to where the 2nd Water placement goes to destroy it. Make it everyone's direction once you define, don't random it.

(Third Pass)

We have our frozen water at west nipple, Water group goes south, 1st water resist to east, 2nd water resist to South west to exchange thunder with the MT. 1st Water resist can jump right back in soon the exchange is complete, Ultra Flash follows 5 seconds later.

OT takes 1st thunder, passes it to MT, and MT passes to 1st or 2nd water resist.

[JackFross]

Fire Lines you need to make a compass direction to where each person goes, except for the 1st water placement. Both tanks face the Fire lines to where the 2nd Water placement goes to destroy it. Make it everyone's direction once you define, don't random it.

If we keep having issues the way we're doing it, I'll be sure to suggest the idea of definite positions. Our tanks and healers already have one spot each where they stack (healers killing 2nd water twister, tanks on the opposite side of the boss as far N as possible) and then the DPS need to just spread on the fly in the remaining space.

(Third Pass)

I don't need and didn't ask for someone to overhaul my group's strategy. I asked about how other Dragoons time their movement abilities to work with the multiple passes in the fight to minimize downtime on the boss. I think I have it, though.