So, what's with the lack of Machinist in DF?

[Nektulos-Tuor]

We do, its called Hypercharge and Foe's Requiem.

Eh. I still want to see something for MCH / BRD like:

Group Buffs: (does not stack.)
12% Critical Chance
12% Attack Speed Increase and TP Reduction
X% Heal on Damage (especially for MCH)
X% Increase to autoattack's damage and speed.
Temporary 50% Attack Speed/TP Reduction/MP Reduction increase raidwide for 10-12 seconds, very long cooldown (5-10 minutes.)

Single Target Buffs: (does not stack.)
Increase threat to target raises damage potential.
Decrease threat to target and increase their damage potential.

Stuff like this, fun attacks and spells that make your utility significant.

That utility is ok and all, but it doesn't really feel like "utility" to me, not worth an entire title over.

[Velhart]

snip

That is broken, you would have to sacrifice more from us to add that in. Plus, there is a job that does something similar to that already, its called Astrologian.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

That is broken, you would have to sacrifice more from us to add that in. Plus, there is a job that does something similar to that already, its called Astrologian.

And that is why I don't like Bards/MCH. They just don't offer good utility for what they sacrifice. Honestly though; not broken. Its called Fun and actual utility; not the crap you guys have.

They are pretty much just DPS with a few tricks. Not really what I would consider a utility class.

I think its more my problem though because I actually grouped with real utility classes in older games. Games now are kind of joke tier in utility, its pretty much dead.

[Velhart]

snip

Keeping the healers from running out of MP in raids is a damn good utility. Silencing, stunning, binding, and applying heavy is pretty good utility and I use all of them. We already do good, comparable damage to other DPS classes. Everything you suggest is unnecessary, potentially game breaking, and hard to balance between BRD and MCH, and the entire structure of the game in general. That point forward, they have to take account those buffs and how they affect the fight. Its a mess and harder to program/balance in than you believe. The game doesn't magically get better from adding stuff like this, there are tons of things you have to consider. I have my complaints on the jobs, but you just take it on a extreme route.

[Kaurie]

Keeping the healers from running out of MP in raids is a damn good utility. Silencing, stunning, binding, and applying heavy is pretty good utility and I use all of them. We already do good, comparable damage to other DPS classes. Everything you suggest is unnecessary, potentially game breaking, and hard to balance between BRD and MCH, and the entire structure of the game in general. That point forward, they have to take account those buffs and how they affect the fight. Its a mess and harder to program/balance in than you believe. The game doesn't magically get better from adding stuff like this, there are tons of things you have to consider. I have my complaints on the jobs, but you just take it on a extreme route.

The issue is that the other jobs can do all of this too. WHM/SCH/AST all have MP restoring capabilities, and for the most part the only times I ever see us needing MP songs/turrets is if people are dying and we either have died or have used our MP raising. Silence/stun/binding/heavy can be done by almost every job.

IMO if they removed all that utility from other jobs, it would make the utility that a MCH/BRD brings much more viable. Currently though, you sacrifice a 10% damage potential so that they can bring a 10% buff to other people once in awhile.

Ballad/mp turret are nice, but like it'd be nice to have more.

[Velhart]

The issue is that the other jobs can do all of this too. WHM/SCH/AST all have MP restoring capabilities, and for the most part the only times I ever see us needing MP songs/turrets is if people are dying and we either have died or have used our MP raising. Silence/stun/binding/heavy can be done by almost every job.

IMO if they removed all that utility from other jobs, it would make the utility that a MCH/BRD brings much more viable. Currently though, you sacrifice a 10% damage potential so that they can bring a 10% buff to other people once in awhile.

Ballad/mp turret are nice, but like it'd be nice to have more.

That is more towards a discussion if MCH/BRD deserve to be on the same line as other DPS. Argument was more that the jobs do have heavy utility, rather if its ones people agree with or not. Making what he suggests is the extreme route. It isn't to say that BRD/MCH shouldn't have better utility, but it is there. If anything, it should be revamped so BRD and MCH have more synergy on the support side. Right now you take one based on your party set up.

I'd love it if they removed DPS and actually added Utility classes too! =3

So basically BRD from FFXI? Sounds terrible and doesn't make sense in how this game is structured.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

That is more towards a discussion if MCH/BRD deserve to be on the same line as other DPS. Argument was more that the jobs do have heavy utility, rather if its ones people agree with or not. Making what he suggests is the extreme route. It isn't to say that BRD/MCH shouldn't have better utility, but it is there. If anything, it should be revamped so BRD and MCH have more synergy on the support side. Right now you take one based on your party set up.

MCH
Dismantling Shot (Replaces Dismantle)
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Combo Action: Slug Shot;
Combo Potency: 200;
Combo Bonus: Absorbs 50% damage dealt as HP and 10% of the target's damage dealt is immediately healed.
Duration: 20s

Rend Mind
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
If delivered as the enemy is casting, Delivers a second attack with a potency of 200.
Silences target for 0.25 seconds.
Cooldown: 30 seconds.
Instant.


BRD:
Songs become stances, and are now instant cast:

Mage's Ballad
Slowly refreshes MP of all nearby party members.
You are slowed by 30% while singing.
Cannot be used with other songs. Removed when casting another Song.

Army's Paeon
Slowly refreshes TP of all nearby party members.
You are slowed by 30% while singing.
Cannot be used with other songs. Removed when casting another Song.

The Wanderer's Minuet
Increases critical chance of all nearby party members by 8%.
Increases all damage dealt by 15%.
TP and MP is slowly drained while singing.
Cannot be used with other songs. Removed when casting another Song.

Battle Voice ((Could be renamed to Voice of the Valkyries or something.))
Resurrects target to 100% Health, Mana, and TP and they are immune to damage for 2 seconds.
3s cast; 300 second CD.

Swiftsong
Bard's Movement Speed in combat is increased by 5%.
Grants 25% increased movement speed to group. It suspends during combat.
This is a permanent buff you can leave on now.

So basically BRD from FFXI? Sounds terrible and doesn't make sense in how this game is structured.

Honestly, the Holy Trinity has ruined so many MMOs its not even funny or fun anymore. I agree there should be roles, but "Utility", "Support", "Puller", "Crowd Control" ect ect seems dead.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Keeping the healers from running out of MP in raids is a damn good utility. Silencing, stunning, binding, and applying heavy is pretty good utility and I use all of them. We already do good, comparable damage to other DPS classes. Everything you suggest is unnecessary, potentially game breaking, and hard to balance between BRD and MCH, and the entire structure of the game in general. That point forward, they have to take account those buffs and how they affect the fight. Its a mess and harder to program/balance in than you believe. The game doesn't magically get better from adding stuff like this, there are tons of things you have to consider. I have my complaints on the jobs, but you just take it on a extreme route.

You know what is amazing utility and also saves MP? Storm's Path; 10% Damage Reduction. By reducing damage your taking your saving your healers so much more MP because they need to use less of their big emergency healing. If your failing or wiping a Summoner can rez instead of healers saving a ton of MP.

The issue is that the other jobs can do all of this too. WHM/SCH/AST all have MP restoring capabilities, and for the most part the only times I ever see us needing MP songs/turrets is if people are dying and we either have died or have used our MP raising. Silence/stun/binding/heavy can be done by almost every job.

IMO if they removed all that utility from other jobs, it would make the utility that a MCH/BRD brings much more viable. Currently though, you sacrifice a 10% damage potential so that they can bring a 10% buff to other people once in awhile.

Ballad/mp turret are nice, but like it'd be nice to have more.

I'd love it if they removed DPS and actually added Utility classes too! =3