Lore, FFXI or FFXIV

[Nalien]

I remember avatars having a developed lore, and they had stories explaining how they turned to be celestial avatars, so I agree with this. FFXIV's feel somewhat shallow, most of them.

I think the Avatars had more gravity behind them... They were old gods, somewhat similar to Zodiark I guess, that had to be kept in slumber for the same reason we don't want Zodiark revived, they'd want to return the world to how it was and that's bad for reasons... Except, if the short stories they all had are to be believed, Altana took measure to invest them in Vana'diel by merging them with mortals, who were the subject of the short stories. That was a lot more interesting than "lawl, aetherial god like beings", at least so far since Primal mythology really hasn't been fleshed out much. More so when you get to Alexander and Odin... I was convinced ToAU was essentially going to an expansion telling the story of Alexander and Odin getting the same treatment the elemental six got in their short stories... The entire expansion played out like one of those short stories... All the way though Wings of the Goddess, I was expecting Treasure (since there was more overlap with expansions in XI) to conclude with Altana merging Odin and Luzaf, Alexander and Razfahd... Instead Odin pops up and is responsible for the Shadow Lord? Meh... Dread to think where they went with RoV...

[CyrilLucifer]

I view Promathia more like Zodiark and I'm almost positive that's the intention (Promathia was Altana's counterpart/lover, Zodiark is Hydaelyn's other half/possible other things that we don't know).

But the Avatars embody what I mean by the Gods being absurd in XI. They come in so many layers and flavors that organization is almost impossible. Terrestrial, Celestial - and then you have the 'higher' Gods above them. I mean, it's not terribly different from Eikon/Primal, I think the difference is "false" versus "true."

I just wasn't fond of XI's God meta, I guess. I'm also not terribly fond of XIV's Twelve for the same reason; it just isn't the flavor I prefer my lore in.

I will say that Odin being behind basically everything was pretty obnoxious, straight out.

[Nalien]

I will say that Odin being behind basically everything was pretty obnoxious, straight out.

Agreed. Wings of the Goddess is where I completely switched off with XI... Partly because I had to, I mean the rate we got story with that expansion was appalling... Odin did it, though? Christ... Why? The general Cloud of Darkness plot RoV gave made much more sense to me... The opening cinematic mentioned the crystal banishing the darkness, yet that darkness never manifested until RoV, I was convinced Wings was going to involve that for explaining Shadow Lord, but nope... Odin...

Before that though? I really quite enjoyed the God meta XI had going on... Celestials were the "old" Gods, while the Terrestrials arose from Vana'diel... Throw in a plot to "humanize" the old Gods with those short stories and it was much more enjoyable than the frankly pathetic amount of information we get on Primals... Primals, for the most part, exist because magic, there's some mythology tied to that, but they've not explored that nearly enough to satisfy me...

Where was that mentioned? o.o I can't honestly remember anything like that, but it sounds super interesting. Was it the moogle sidequests? Must've been, because I didn't have the patience to read through all those kupos.

It's speculation, and yes, it's tied to the moogle sidequests.

Good King was based on the legend of how the Moogles got to the Twelveswood; They once worshiped the Twelve in the Sky, but a calamity occurred and fire rained down from the sky, so the Good King lead a group down to the surface.

If you view that in terms of Eorzean history, it sounds like perhaps the Second Umbral Era (IIRC that was fire?), except the Gods (Twelve) left Eorzea before/during the First Umbral Era, so that doesn't line up... When you take the Moghome stuff into consideration, though... You have Moogles serving Sky (Dragon) and Land (Thordan) Lords prior to the Dragonsong War... Thordan had Twelve Knights... Nidhogg (a dragon, who spits fire...) clearly caused a mini-calamity when he went nuts, given the damage can still be seen all around Dravania... I'd imagine the Twelveswood Moogles left at the start of the Dragonsong War and the Twelve they served were Thordans Knights...

In some ways, I love that... It's speculation and is never out right explained... Shame the rest can't be on that level... At the very bottom you've got Leviathan, they completely butchered him... This is actually a large part of why I want a Beast Tribe expansion next, that takes us into their territory (that and it would be the perfect expansion to provide new GC Ranks, FC Primal Summoning, Hamlet Defense, and pretty much everything I'd hoped 2.0 would add that still haven't been added...).

XI didn't leave the same room for speculation with the short stories basically spelling out the Avatars origins, but at least all of them had a solid piece of lore behind them... Here? Shiva and Thordan do, but those weren't Primals, they were people playing Primals... Bahamut does thanks to Tiamat (who we can't tell about Dalamud or Coil because screw satisfying conclusions), but that is it... Best case you've got Ramuh, who gives us a nice bit of dialog, worst case you've got Leviathan, who was just there...

[Tanathya]

Snip

Primals feel kinda forced, and they're an essential part of the story, so that is why I feel the story of FFXIV to be not as interesting under my point of view.

[DroFrehter]

I played FFXI for about 6 years, but it has been a few years since I last played. I last played during the days of Abyssea but my priorities pulled me elsewhere. From what I have been told, I wouldn't even recognize the game now but back on point.. I loved FFXI and it's lore. The story was pretty cool and seemed pretty well fleshed out but the world of XIV feels more real and alive to me. I think the lore of the primals is pretty interesting but XI did seem to do it a bit better. Either way, both games are good but for different reasons.