Lore, FFXI or FFXIV

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

XIV offers plenty of good challenges. Pretending that the game's accessibility is somehow only enjoyable by drooling, filthy casuals and that it offers nothing for those who like a challenge is as unfair as saying that XI is an obtuse nightmare with no respect for anybody who might not want to dedicate every waking moment to it. I think both games have a healthy amount they do better than the other one, though I won't really go much more in-depth on gameplay comparisons, considering the original intent of the thread.

Instead, I'll ask: what about the story, world, and characters do you find is dumbed down in XIV, in comparison to XI?

[CyrilLucifer]

In regards to the world?

Everything. Literally everything - and that's even discounting zone sizes and possible immersion (because I loathe when people use immersion as an argument).

Terrifying, multi-storied beast dungeons where the enemies are actually a threat and don't leash and become more difficult as you go deeper and deeper. In RotZ you actually kill one nation's leader and the characters that appear from then on out in any cutscenes where he would play a role are different, as does the dialogue. This is nothing at all like how XIV dropped the ball at the end of 2.5. FFXI even has seasons where the leaves on trees in La Theine would change, which also influenced weather patterns.
Ifrit's Cauldron erupted; seeing it was incredible.
Weight doors in Altepa, while annoying, were a really neat idea. You needed 1 Galka, two Elvaan/Hume and like 4 Tarutaru or something? You only needed 1 Galka because the areas were intended for Galka.
I also like the Word puzzle door in Castle Oztroja; please don't hurt me.
And who can forget going into Gusgen Mines the first time and seeing the crying ghosts, wondering what happened in there?

XIV's world is just dreadfully static in comparison. XI's world has an absurd amount of detail in it.

The other topics are really opinion, but I believe that more (in quantity) of the minor NPCs in XI have a background and personality than XIV's, but most of this is due to out of game lore tidbits that SE spent years developing. If you want to ignore them, go right ahead, but they still exist. Minor being just generic NPCs in, say, Selbina and Mhaura, not characters like the Serpent Generals (who were definitely better developed than most characters in both XIV and XI). The only thing XIV really has in comparison is the Moogle Postman quests.

I see a lot of people throw around things like "XI has had more time for lore-building!" - but XIV has also had quite a bit of time for its basic mythological and metaphysical lore to be built up, since that stuff doesn't change from XIV to ARR, hence why it is so developed.

That being said, how many times are we going to have to complain before we get more Hellsguard and Duskwight lore? I felt the cultures and races were a lot more developed in XI because it went for quality over quantity. Meanwhile, in XIV we have a puddle for everything except 2 or 3 races.

The big difference in lore between games is scale. XI spent a lot more time on individuals and minor groups (eg SOB, the Adoulin factions), where XIV's lore has focused on a larger scale overall - hence why one person may prefer some traits of one over the other. There's not really a right or wrong answer in preferences on things like this.


On a final note:
FFXI Raubahn + Immortals > XIV Raubahn + Immortals

[CyrilLucifer]

I understand. I can't even imagine trying to get into XI now, but I think if you can, you'll find the world to be very rich.

If I was to tell a friend to start somewhere, it would be with ToAU. It has a more modern style of storytelling, compared to the world and lore-heavy Zilart. CoP is very good, but it's also intended for those who already have their feet wet with the lore. ToAU is really just an incredible expansion overall.

If you haven't gone to Aht Urghan and done the quests, both main story and side, you're in for quite a treat.

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

Sorry Cyrill, that was more directed at SinSiew; bit of a knee-jerk reaction at the implication that enjoyment of XIV is predicated on being some kind of inferior "WoW Casual", or whatever. I imagine their answer is quite the same as yours.

And that's fine. But I haven't experienced any of all that in XI. The game does not give up its lore, or story, very easily. Which is all fine and good, but (a) XIV is a far cry from being shallow, lore-wise (it too has an absurd amount of detail to it, or at least more detail readily visible to player) and (b) the history it's crafted for itself makes itself apparent much more quickly, thus sucking me in faster. I'm getting a decent-quality story taking place in a high-quality fantasy world told to me at a reasonable pace. Now, I'm far from a mouth-breathing casual idiot (not that I think anyone's implied this, mind), and yet I haven't felt a connection to Vana'Diel like I had to Eorzea at a similar point in playing. As a new player, I don't think that's nothing. There's something to be said for accessibility.

[CyrusArjuna]

snip

Pfft you could become a hero in San d'Oria, Bastok, and Jeuno by turning in corn/cabbage/moss to some shepherd in Selbina trying to feed his sheep.

For all this nostalgia about XI I wonder how XIV would've turned out if it was more like 1.23 from the beginning instead of what we got? In my opinion the transitioning period between 1.0 and 2.0 played a lot like XI with some updates

[CyrilLucifer]

Fame was a neat idea, like people not immediately giving you quests right out of the game but having to earn your fame/trust first, but yeah, grinding repeatable quests for it sucked. Norg Fame and Zinc Ore, anyone?

[CyrusArjuna]

They FINALLY made it so ores stacked recently. Wasn't fun clearing your inventory and stuffing it with zinc ore constantly, that's for sure. Oh I think they did the same with the Yagudo Bead Necklaces =o