If You Were A Class/Job Designer...

[Yuni_Queen]

However buffed version of dark dance is what makes DRK actually quite lower in terms of tanking than WAR or PLD.
20% evasion? Can anyone confirm, that lvl 60 dungeons or some kind sephirot trial has evade chance on at least 1%? In dungeons you may evade 2 or 3 hits from big pulls, but i don't know, if it's worth exchaning for DA + Abyssal Drain, since you will just self-heal yourself for sure, not a probability chance.
What's more, buffing evade by 20% doesnt mean we have 20% chance to evade attacks. We buff evansion stat by 20%.
And since DD increases parry by 30% not 50%, math is telling us to use something stable, that won't make healer's cry "use cooldown!".

"B-but i did... Dark Dance..."

[Violette]

However buffed version of dark dance is what makes DRK actually quite lower in terms of tanking than WAR or PLD.
20% evasion? Can anyone confirm, that lvl 60 dungeons or some kind sephirot trial has evade chance on at least 1%? In dungeons you may evade 2 or 3 hits from big pulls, but i don't know, if it's worth exchaning for DA + Abyssal Drain, since you will just self-heal yourself for sure, not a probability chance.
What's more, buffing evade by 20% doesnt mean we have 20% chance to evade attacks. We buff evansion stat by 20%.
And since DD increases parry by 30% not 50%, math is telling us to use something stable, that won't make healer's cry "use cooldown!".

"B-but i did... Dark Dance..."

Actually 20% increase in evasion in this game IS a 20% increase to evasion (flat), not multiplicative (as far as testing has shown). (Same with parry/block increases. Testing this at the moment in case I've momentary insanity).

Just as 30% parry increase is 30%+base+other sources.

Also, theoretically a 30% increase in parry is a 6% increase in physical defence, which can swing high/low. As we approach n=infinity, where n is number of attacks incoming, this will come closer to the true average.
Not to mention 20% evasion is (again theoretically) a 20% increase in defence against all avoidable attacks. This puts in on par with shadowskin (on a lesser cooldown), with the added parry bonus which adds to low blows/reprisal.

Now while we must recognize the lack of ability to normalize these % chances so they always happen X no of times out of Y tests, we can still see that these abilities approach their true affectiveness under 1 of 2 situations:

A) Multiple mobs are dealing physical damage to the dark knight

B) Mobs (needs not be they have many), are using rapid attack moves that hit quickly. These could be things like Bahamuts claw, Uplander Doom, etc.

In both cases, DA-DD will approach it's true effectiveness.

So while people may rag on DD all they want, it's still the most effective tool Dark Knight has for multiple mob situations.
Am I advocating the use of this for busters such as double rocket fist?
Of course not, but as you've so eloquently put it....."math is telling us", DA-DD can be more than useful as a replacement for shadowskin against multiple mobs.

[Tanathya]

I love DA+DD on trash, but other than that, it lacks of a real use on bosses. In fact, who ever uses DA+DD on bosses? It's DD without DA every single time, and just because it's there and not using it feels weird, but it doesn't do much in terms of mitigation, and I personally use it with the procs in mind, not the incoming damage. It seriously needs a change, or something added to what we have.

[Syzygian]

In Sephex, the boss's autos CAN be dodged with DADD. Haven't been ballsy enough to try DADD in savage yet.

[Tanathya]

In Sephex, the boss's autos CAN be dodged with DADD. Haven't been ballsy enough to try DADD in savage yet.

None of which are worth spending Dark Arts to buff Dark Dance for a mere chance at dodging them. I mean sure, it can work, but you might as well keep that DA for the next SE.

Edit: I can get behind your idea of adding a 20% shield to it, sounds fairly easy to implement and it would give DA+DD a purpose on actual challenging scenarios.

[Syzygian]

snip

Well if you dodge even just two autos from seph that's like 8K damage you just mitigated so I dunno. Just figured I'd throw it out there, dodging bosses is not impossible.

I'm very, VERY liberal with DA usage, I hit the button probably 80-90 times per fight. In fights with DPS checks as menial as Sephex I don't think I or anyone else will be broken by DAing a DD or two in the first phase (the only one where he AAs).

[Tanathya]

Well if you dodge even just two autos from seph that's like 8K damage you just mitigated so I dunno. Just figured I'd throw it out there, dodging bosses is not impossible.

I'm very, VERY liberal with DA usage, I hit the button probably 80-90 times per fight. In fights with DPS checks as menial as Sephex I don't think I or anyone else will be broken by DAing a DD or two in the first phase (the only one where he AAs).

Again, that's a chance at doing it, if it was reliable, I would use it even if it was a one hit dodge, but it isn't. I'm also very liberal with the use of DA, but not on things like DD on a boss, I'd rather keep using SE. Guess it comes down to the user, so /shrug.

[Syzygian]

Again, that's a chance at doing it, if it was reliable, I would use it even if it was a one hit dodge, but it isn't. I'm also very liberal with the use of DA, but not on things like DD on a boss, I'd rather keep using SE. Guess it comes down to the user, so /shrug.

Reliability isn't a problem when you're talking about AAs. You get hit by a bunch of them, if you dodge even just one, that's pretty cool and worthy of note. I'm not suggesting you pop it to pray for a dodge on a scripted TB. There's also points in your rotation, if you're using BP and BW (tanking Gritless) where you can recover MP faster than DASE alone can spend it, so that's something to bear in mind as well.

Anyway the point wasn't to say that its optimal or a fantastic idea, just to say that boss damage being wholly undodgeable is a myth. You know. For science.

[Tanathya]

Reliability isn't a problem when you're talking about AAs. You get hit by a bunch of them, if you dodge even just one, that's pretty cool and worthy of note. I'm not suggesting you pop it to pray for a dodge on a scripted TB. There's also points in your rotation, if you're using BP and BW (tanking Gritless) where you can recover MP faster than DASE alone can spend it, so that's something to bear in mind as well.

Anyway the point wasn't to say that its optimal or a fantastic idea, just to say that boss damage being wholly undodgeable is a myth. You know. For science.

I make it so that doesn't happen, mostly by timing BW. But yeah, comes down to personal preference, I mean, skipping a SE for a DD isn't gonna make-or-break anything at all, I just keep dealing as much damage as possible, it's also a way to mitigate.

[Yuni_Queen]

I am not gonna argue, I had rare pleasure of avoiding hits, actually i rarely bother with using this against big pulls, since SS and/or SW was enough to take on larger packs of enemies.
Thou i will check it out, maybe its a waste of SW.

The problem are those swings. Old good RNG saying states: "If it's not 100%, it may be as well 5." However it cannot be considered as static cooldown to handle certain situations.
I would call it lesser cooldown, but i understand now how DD should be considered as.

Yeah, i wanted to put it in next post, but you made it faster. DRK is AoE adapted.
That's another aspect i find a bit burdensome. Boss fights forces me to keep in mind i have 2 omni-CD and one magic CD. when i use DD its mostly to proc low blows or reprisal.
I am not saying 3 cooldowns aren't enough.

My point is that DRK cannot give 100% of itself in every situation. Hi traits (and i speak mostly about traits) are AoE aspected. enchanced unmend and LB proc on bosses is rather "MEH".